John Gray, author of The New Leviathans: Thoughts After Liberalism, joins The Realignment. Marshall and John discuss why he believes Hobbesian political realism is the only way of understanding the world of the 2020s, how faith in a liberal, well managed future peaked in the 1990s, why history could never truly "end," and how current events from Ukraine, Gaza, and the Pacific reflect could use a more self-aware, realistic, and disabused ethical approach.  

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