For this final episode of season 4 of 5 O’ Clock Apron Podcast Claire cooks with her 19-year-old daughter Grace, the catalyst for Dear Grace the cookbook. As many who follow Claire on instagram @5oclockapron will know, Grace left home for University last September and is very much missed by all of her family. Home for the summer holidays, and Grace’s suggestion, Grace wanted to cook with her mum for this podcast recording. This is a lovely listen, less Grace teaching Claire, more mother and daughter cooking together, talking about the year that’s passed and what Grace has learnt, about cookery and also life, since leaving home. 

Claire and Grace make a lentil soup together in the kitchen at home for their lunch that day. With the soup ticking over on the oven top, the pair discuss student cookery, where to shop and why at University, the hole that Grace left at home and how hard Claire found the change in their family dynamics. Grace and Claire have good laugh about BuzzBalls, Biggie BuzzBalls in particular, and what a stronghold these strange, shaped cocktails have over the student population. 

It’s been a delight making this next series of 5 O Clock Apron Podcast and the podcast continues to go from strength to strength. Thanks to Kitty Finlow for all your hard work and diligence whilst recording the sound and to Vic Stevens for her extraordinary editing skills. It goes without saying, a great big thank you to Tims Dairy for their sponsorship this season and also to Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles UK for loan of the snazzy VW van.

I will post this recipe as a reel on my instagram @5oclockapron week beginning 27th July. For those who can't wait, the recipe is in my latest book, Dear Grace, which is available to buy now! Thank you, Claire and Grace.

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Lemn Sissay is a lifeforce. A poet, three times Sunday Times bestselling author, memoirist playwright curator and broadcaster. Lemn also has some of his poems embedded as landmarks in the physical architecture of Manchester, London and the British Council Offices in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. Brought up in care homes Makerfield, at 17 he lived alone and worked as a gutter cleaner, personalising his gutter cleaning leaflets with his poetry. Sometime later, his ladder stolen, Lemn moved to Manchester and worked for a publishing house as an Asian & Afro-Caribbean writers development worker. The 1990s saw the city of Manchester, and Lemn Sissay, gain a global celebrity, with both the Manchester scene and Lemn’s poetry reaping widespread acclaim. 

Claire has wanted to cook with Lemn since the very first series of 5 O’ Clock Apron Podcast after reading his book My Name is Why. The Guardian newspaper writes; “Lemn Sissay has success written on his forehead” and Claire could not agree more, Lemn radiates with a positivity that is infectious. Unusually for this recording, Claire and Lemn cook together in a friend of Claire’s flat in Hackney. Claire arrives at the recording with ingredients that Lemn has requested and together the pair cook butter chicken, a Pakistani version, taught to Lemn by a close friend. 

This episode, the penultimate in the series, is a joy to listen to. Claire and Lemn discuss a childhood in care and its profound impact, there is also a moment when Lemn drops curry sauce all over his brand-new trainers, expletives are used. The butter chicken is delicious, one of the best Claire has ever cooked and eaten and, quite honestly, the fact that Lemn is also a phenomenal cook, as well as an astonishing poet and writer, makes Lemn such impressive human being to spend time with. Is there anything this man can’t do? And do extraordinarily well?

Note; there are a few swear words in this episode, hence explicit rating.

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Gerald Stratford is a gardener and a gentleman. Claire drove to the Cotswolds for this episode of 5 O Clock Apron Podcast. Knocking on Gerald’s front door, Claire is quickly whisked through the house, past Elizabeth, Gerald’s wife, and their dog, Bilbobaggins both sitting in the living room, on through the kitchen and out into Gerald’s garden. And what a garden it is! Gerald’s garden is immaculate and stuffed full to bursting with untold fruit and vegetables, the garden is a maze of walkways and paths, shooting off in all different directions to various raised beds, and to what Gerald’s refers to as his giant growing cages, all shapes and sizes, because there are so many of these homemade structures. Marigolds dot the flowerbeds and pathways, “to keep the pests at bay, we are at one with nature you see Claire, we are part of it, we can’t fight it, but the pests hate the smell of the marigolds, so it does help a bit!”

Gerald spends a lot of his time in his garden and has a gazebo set up, with a small induction hob on a table with a chopping board close by; “I thought we could cook in the garden, Claire?” Claire is very happy about this, and the pair dig potatoes and get cracking, cooking in the garden, the potatoes only just dug from the ground less that 10 minutes ago. “Can’t get fresher than that, can you?” Claire says. 

Gerald wants to make a potato salad that he’s been eating for over 40 years; he was first shown how to make it by his German friend Rolph’s mother for a fishing trip. Rolph is no longer with us, and Gerald dedicates this episode to his great friend, Rolph. It is a touching moment.

Gerald is a giant in the gardening world. Fashion designer Alexander McQueen even designed a limited-edition fleece jacket emblazoned with his favourite red cabbage for Gerald. Gerald is an icon and has graced the cover of US Vogue magazine. Whilst his speciality might be growing enormous vegetables, there is a tenderness in the way that Gerald gardens and his viewpoint on growing, that makes this giant a bit of a teddy bear, and a very special one at that.

Gerald's Recipe

serves 4 as a side dish

800g new potatoes

1 egg yolk, reserve the white for another use

150ml - 200ml olive oil (or use sunflower oil or mix of sunflower and olive oil)

1 tbsp dijon mustard

salt and pepper, to taste

2 heaped tbsp Tims Greek Family yogurt

splash of red wine, or cider vinegar

gherkins, as many as you like

sliced mortadella, as much as you like

small bunch of parsley, finely chopped

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Miriam Gonzaléz Durantéz is a force, and Claire loved cooking with her for this episode of 5 O’ Clock Apron Podcast. Worth noting here that Claire is keen to get the elephant in the room over with as soon as Claire and Miriam start cooking in Miriam’s immaculate London kitchen with Claire quizzing Miriam on her title of Lady Clegg.

Miriam is quick to dismiss the title, with characteristic grace, as one she doesn’t necessarily identify with, saying it was given to her, because she is the wife of Nick Clegg. Clegg being the one-time deputy prime minister for the U.K. Miriam is a busy woman with a distinguished career to showcase, splitting her week between London and Madrid. An international lawyer, founder of the charity Inspiring Girls and, just as pressing, now shouldering a new responsibility of politician. When Claire and Miriam meet to cook and record this episode, Miriam is in the midst of setting up a new political party in Spain (she can’t say the name of the party at the time of the recording), aiming, she tells Claire; “to stop the country from going further right” and as Miriam says; “I’ve been involved in politics all my life, now is the time for me to stand up”.

For the episode, Miriam cooks a Basque tuna stew called Marmitako, clearly an intuitive and skilled cook, she is also quick to hold Claire to account during much of the cooking process; “no Claire, your peppers need to be thinner” and “no, Claire,this is how you prepare the potato, you need to do it like this and you need to listen for the crack as you cut the potato”. Claire is enthralled throughout, because this, in a nutshell, is what this podcast is all about. Food and cookery knowledge shared through the prism of good conversation, two people cooking side by side, chopping and chatting about why a recipe means so much to them, and how it fits into their lives.

Miriam’s stew is undoubtedly delicious, as the cooking is wrapped up, husband Nick walks into the kitchen introducing himself, meanwhile Miriam’s son waits patiently to eat the dish his mum has just cooked; “he’s always so hungry, he eats all the time, teenage boys” she says with a chuckle. Conscious of the clock, Claire makes tracks to leave, after all Miriam, has got a lot to do, a plane to catch, a country to run and so on and so on….

Miriam's Marmitako, Basque Tuna Stew 

Serves 4 

500g fresh tuna, cut into large chunks

2 tbsp plain flour

2 peppers, green, red or yellow 

2 onions, finely sliced 

3 garlic cloves

Small bunch of parsley 

200mls dry white wine

1kg waxy potatoes, peeled  

Salt and pepper, to taste

Olive oil, quite a bit to fry tuna and shallow fry the potatoes 

1. Dust the pieces of tuna all over with the flour and season well with salt and pepper.

2. In a large pan, add 3 tbsp of olive oil and fry the onions and the peppers over a moderate heat until softened, around 10 minutes. Push the onions and peppers to one side of the pan, add a splash more olive oil and fry the pieces of tuna to get a little golden in colour, but not cook all the way through, though this will depend on the thickness of the tuna. Remove the pan from the heat and keep to one side. 

3. Use a pestle and mortar or use a small food processor or blender to blend the garlic, parsley and white wine together. Keep to one side. 

4. Use a small saucepan and fill 1/3 with olive oil (working in batches and using a smaller pan will help you to use less oil). Use a small knife to make small, sharp indentations in the potatoes and “crack off” small pieces of the potato, about the size of a shell on walnut is a good approximation. This is Miriam’s way, and she suggests preparing the potatoes likes this gives them a better texture once cooked, see reel for video explanation. Fry the potatoes in hot oil at 180C until nicely coloured and nearly cooked through.

5. Put the tuna, onions and peppers back on the heat, add the parsley, garlic and wine mix and add the fried potatoes, mixing gently to combine. Bring the pan up to the boil and simmer for 30 seconds. Put a lid on the pan and reduce the heat to moderate – low and continue cooking until the potatoes are soft, the tuna will be cooked through.

6. Remove from the heat, check the seasoning and serve.

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In this episode of 5 O’Clock Apron Podcast, Claire drives to Oxford to cook with the Professor of Computer Science and Head of the Department of Computer Science at the University of Oxford, Michael Wooldridge. Michael’s field of work has been in Artificial Intelligence (AI) since 1989, a landscape which has seen wide-reaching change. Michael’s Wikipedia page, and in particular, the awards and honours section is extensive and hugely impressive. He has written over 350 scientific papers and contributed to many academic books, and his most charming, for the layperson, is the bite-sized Ladybird Expert Book on Artificial Intelligence first published by Penguin Random House in 2018.

As with every episode, Claire knocks on the front door of Michael’s house having never met or indeed cooked in Michael’s kitchen before. Michael is a bean enthusiast, and to keep within a sensible timeframe, but still wanting to cook with dried beans from scratch, has a huge pot of just-cooked black turtle beans ready and waiting on the hob. Together Michael and Claire cook Michael’s favourite weeknight black bean chilli, a dish he regularly cooks at home for his wife and two grown up children, the question posed throughout the recording by Michael is, “How hot should we go?” More chilli is generally the answer, with some additional extra spicy seasoning that Michael is a fan of. 

With the black beans bubbling, Claire quizzes Michael on the future of big tech, on whether robots cleaning our houses and loading our dishwashers will happen any time soon, will AI help with the future of food and farming and food insecurity, what is easier to program: driverless cars or grandmaster chess players? With the potential of AI a near constant topic in the news these days, it is with trepidation Claire considers the future of the workforce as we know it, only to be told by Michael “not to worry, the robots aren’t coming to get us, just yet!”

Cooking with Michael Wooldridge in this episode of 5 O’Clock Apron Podcast is a lesson in reassurance. With anxiety levels in society seen to be generally on the up, and for some, at a tipping point, cooking something delicious for dinner, whatever your line of work, is an opportunity for some much-needed calm and - most important of all - something tasty to eat on the table come dinnertime.   

Michael’s Black Bean Chilli Recipe 

Serves 4

Ingredients; 

400g dried turtle beans (you can pre-soak the beans in cold water for an hour or two, or overnight, but Michael thinks this is unnecessary, and his beans were, once cooked, delicious)

1 400g tin of chopped tomatoes 

1 whole red chilli

1 large red onion, peeled and finely diced 

150g diced chorizo

2 tbsp of olive oil

2 - 3 cloves garlic, peeled and finely chopped 

1 tbsp smoked paprika 

2 tsp ground cumin

1 tsp dried oregano, or more to taste 

Dried chilli flakes, to taste 

Jerk seasoning, Michael used Dunns River Jerk Seasoning, to taste 

The juice of 1 lime

Small bunch of coriander, stalks finely chopped, leaves roughly chopped 

Method;

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In this episode of 5 O’Clock Apron Podcast, Claire is on home turf, in Bristol and walks to Dee Ryding’s house. Dee is an undertaker and owns the funeral parlour Divine Ceremony. Dee calls herself an undertaker and champions the phrase “Lovers in Life – Helpers in Death” as the strapline to her business. It was a blazing hot day in June for this recording, Claire marching the short walk to meet with Dee and cook together in her bright, sunny kitchen in Bishopston. Claire knocks on the front door, to be met by Dee, already in an apron and raring to go with one of her favourite - very much battered and splattered - cookbooks to hand, 30 Minute Indian by Sunil Vijayakar published in the year 2000 by Octopus.

Within minutes Claire and Dee are chopping and chatting together, cooking one of Dee’s favourite curries from the book. It is a recipe Dee swears by, and cooks often for her family. Over the years, because Dee has now been cooking this recipe for a good many years now, Dee has made her own adjustments, tinkering with the recipe to suit her, and her children’s tastes. 

Claire has wanted to cook with an undertaker for the podcast since way back in Series 1, and truthfully, this episode is everything Claire had hoped it would be. Dee and Claire discuss many topics as they cook, from the practical, such as artfully arranged spice drawers and a love of measuring spoons to the more profound, what happens to our bodies after we die and what impact Queen Victoria had on the modern funeral. There is a brief, but poignant moment in the recording, when Dee and Claire’s discussion tackles some of the bigger questions life must throw at us, with Claire having to steady herself, her emotions getting the better of her, composure regained, the pair continue cooking, the curry smelling utterly delicious. 

This is an extraordinary episode of 5 O’Clock Apron Podcast, listen in, wherever you get your podcasts, as you cook along in your own kitchen and marvel at what a tonic food and cookery can be to everyday life, for everyone. 

Dee’s Chicken and Cashew Nut Curry Recipe

Serves 4

Ingredients;

1 onion, roughly chopped 

4 tbsp tomato puree 

1 heaped tbsp Greek style yogurt 

2 garlic cloves 

Thumb sized piece of ginger, peeled

Juice ½ lemon 

¼ tsp ground turmeric

2 tsp garam masala

2 tsp salt

70g lightly toasted cashew nuts 

800g diced, skinless chicken thigh

3 tbsp coconut oil, or use ghee or neutral oil

50g dried apricots, thinly sliced 

300ml hot chicken stock, or use water 

1- 3 tsp hot aubergine pickle 

200g baby spinach leaves

Big bunch of coriander, stalks finely chopped, leaves roughly chopped 

Method;

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Lisa McGrillis is an actor. Born in Carlisle to Irish parents, Lisa grew up surrounded by family, food, and humour - three things that still shape her life today. She studied drama in Newcastle, got her start in regional theatre, and had her London breakthrough when Lee Hall’s Pitman Painters transferred to the National Theatre. Since then, she’s become a familiar face on stage and screen, from Mum alongside Lesley Manville to her current role as the gloriously over-the-top Valerie in Rivals.

When she’s not filming in Bristol or learning lines, Lisa is at home in London with her husband, also an actor, and their two children. Food is central to her family life, a connection that runs deep thanks to her Austrian grandmother — “Big Nanny” — whose recipes still inspire Lisa’s cooking today.

In this episode, Claire arrives at Lisa’s London home to cook one of those beloved family dishes: chicken schnitzel with Big Nanny’s potato salad. Together they peel, chop, and bread the chicken while reminiscing about Lisa’s roots, the chaos of raising kids, life on a busy TV set, and the joys (and nerves) of performing live theatre. There’s also a well-stocked fridge to explore, some very handy kitchen gadgets courtesy of Lisa’s dad, and a celebratory glass of Crémant to toast the cooking session.

The result? A comforting family meal with a side of laughter, memories, and a glimpse into the real life of an actor balancing stage, screen, and supper.

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For this episode of 5 O’ Clock Apron Podcast, Claire travels to Bristol to cook with England rugby prop Sarah Bern - just a stone’s throw from Ashton Gate Stadium, where Sarah hopes to be battling it out in the Rugby World Cup quarterfinals this September. With her own flat mid-renovation, Sarah borrows a friend’s beautiful (and admittedly “too swanky to be mine”) kitchen for the occasion.

Between whisking eggs and grating Pecorino for Sarah’s pre-match favourite, spaghetti carbonara (no cream allowed - “straight to hell” if you do, so they say), the pair dive into Sarah’s remarkable rugby journey. From earning her first England cap at 18, to playing in two previous World Cups, to preparing for the gruelling demands of the next, Sarah reveals the technical finesse of life as a tighthead prop - part maximum squat, part chess match. Sarah’s instagram @sarahbern3 is a paean to what it takes to be an athlete on the international stage, determination, ambition and a true love of the sport to which you are so utterly devoted to. 

Carbonara doesn't take long to cook, and yet Sarah and Claire manage to fit an awful lot of chat into the time it takes to cook (and record) this classic Italian pasta dish, they discuss the reality of women’s rugby, the joy and rivalry of playing alongside (and sometimes against) her partner Mackenzie Carson, the sacrifices elite sport demands, and Sarah’s big ambitions beyond rugby - namely, swapping the scrum for the cockpit as a pilot. All the while, the guanciale sizzles, the pepper flows freely, and Sarah proves she’s as strong in the kitchen as she is on the pitch.

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In this episode, Claire visits Oxford to cook with Alexandra Green, curator for Southeast Asia at the British Museum. Alexandra shares her passion for Southeast Asian food, shaped by her childhood in Malaysia and her love of rice and vibrant flavours. Together, they prepare Alexandra’s favourite quick and easy Thai chickpea curry – a comforting dish that blends classic Thai ingredients with a twist, reflecting Alexandra’s own culinary influences.
As they cook, Alexandra talks about her fascinating role at the British Museum, looking after a vast collection of over 33,000 objects from across Southeast Asia. She discusses the importance of spices, their journeys across the world, and how food and objects connect cultures through time. Alexandra explains how she became the first dedicated curator for Southeast Asia at the museum, her work on exhibitions, and the ongoing efforts to share and document the region’s rich history.
The conversation weaves together stories of family, travel, and the everyday joy of cooking. Alexandra reflects on the objects she cares for, from fish traps and mortars to contemporary art and ceremonial daggers, and what they reveal about the lives and histories of Southeast Asian communities. She also touches on the complexities of museum collections, the significance of transparency and access, and the role of curators in shaping the stories we tell about the past.
With a warming bowl of Thai chickpea curry and plenty of good conversation, this episode is a celebration of food, heritage, and the connections we make through what we cook and collect.

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Susan Bennison, Sue for short,  is 92 years old and incredible with it. Claire travelled to rural Kent to bake a cake with Sue for this episode. Arriving outside a cottage that looks a little bit Beatrix Potter, a little bit Jane Austin complete with a very old and wonky stone doorstop which is surrounded by rambling roses, bluebells and peonies. The door opens and out pops a very sprightly Sue; “watch your step, this cottage is very, very old” instructs Sue, practically galloping off to the kitchen where Sue’s daughter Vicky is waiting to put the kettle on. Vicky is the founder of iconic Pasta Grannies channel on YouTube and also on instagram, but Claire and Sue don’t need any help from Vicky, no way, Sue is an accomplished cook and Claire begins to fully appreciate that Sue probably doesn’t need any help, from anyone, ever! 

Sue gets cracking on the cake, no scales necessary, she’s made this so many times, she just “knows” … she also has the help of her trusty (and quite noisy!) Kenwood mixer circa 1952 “that mixer’s been down the Suez Canal with me on route to Kenya when I 1st got married aged 23!” Remarkably, the mixer still works, and is still in constant use with Sue, a keen baker still finding it a very “soothing” activity.

Baking a cake with Sue was a lesson in having wisdom and good sense in cooking. The cake gets baked with an ease that Claire finds breathtaking. As the cake cools, Sue takes Claire for a turn around her beautiful garden, with Sue once again, reminding Claire to “watch your step over the cobbles there” as Sue strides ahead, at pace.

Sue Bennison is remarkable for many reasons, she’s lived a very long and interesting life, that she still cooks from scratch most days “there’s the odd occasion I might have something shop bought, but not many” is very inspiring. Especially so as she has lived alone for the last 15 years, since her much missed husband passed away.. 

Sue Bennison is an inspiration to us all. A gardening and / or baking podcast career surely beckons.

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