In this episode, I speak with three inspiring individuals: Michelle Sages, a Lead Deputy State Public Defender of the Denver Trial Office, Travis Weiner, a Deputy State Public Defender of the Greeley Regional Office, and James Hardy, a Lead Deputy Public Defender in the Appellate Division of the Colorado State Public Defender. 

 

Together, they speak on The Defender’s Union of Colorado and why it’s essential to have a public service union. Then, they go into how they have been working with both state officials and the general public to gain support for their cause.

 

They’ll wipe away all misconceptions about public service unions and prove that despite the criticisms, a union is beneficial for everyone involved.

 

Even though Colorado is in the top 5 states with the strongest public defense system, there is still a long way to go. Public service employees are still drastically underpaid and overworked, while clients are not receiving fair access to representation.

 

Michelle, Travis, and James are actively advocating for a system that ensures public service employees can keep up with the requirements of their job while clients can get the help they desperately need. With their passion for transforming the system, Colorado public defense has a much brighter future. 

 

Key Topics and Takeaways:

 

• Michelle, Travis, and James explain how they got into public defense. [7:06]
• Why the defense union was created. [12:36]
• Reasons public service and a union are not in conflict. [28:45]
• Biggest goals of the union. [36:38]
• Problems with the leadership in public defense. [37:34]
• The legal & structural issues that the union faces. [56:06]
• How the union avoids becoming public defender centered. [1:10:57]
• Policy work that needs to be done. [1:17:11]
• The future of Colorado public defense. [1:27:32]
• Why the union is necessary. [1:33:43]

 

Guests:

 

Michelle Sages, Lead Deputy State Public Defender, Denver Trial Office

 

Travis Weiner, Deputy State Public Defender, Greeley Regional Office

 

James Hardy, Lead Deputy Public Defender, Appellate Division, Colorado State Public Defender

 

Resources:

 

Defender Union of Colorado 

 

Polis, Democratic lawmakers and local governments are all squaring off over public bargaining rights 

 

Colorado’s Public Defender’s Office workers announce a union effort, but state laws stand in their way 

 

Colorado’s public defenders launch union drive for lawyers and support staff. But there’s a catch. 

 

"Highly Overworked and Grossly Underpaid": Why Public Defenders Launched a Union 

 

Memorable Quotes:

 

“If we can't do this work without all of us, we need to improve the conditions for all of us.” (13:16, Travis)

 

“I think a lot of people leave because they believe that the work is so important and they find themselves unable to do it in a satisfactory way within the system.” (18:31, Michelle)

 

“Our goal as a union is to provide the best client representation we possibly can and to ensure effective representation for all of our clients and where we feel like that our system is falling short is in retention and creating a sustainable career path for folks, which long term hurts our clients' representation.” (29:30, James)

“One of the problems with the revolving door system is oftentimes for supervisor positions, it's not who's the most qualified or the best fit, it's who's up next, Is that the best way to train the next generation of public defenders? Is that the best way to select someone that brand new public defenders are gonna look to and model after? I don't think so.” (37:52, James)

 

“Everybody knows it is a totally open secret that it is a completely unconstitutional, dysfunctional system and people are not getting the representation that they deserve and need.” (43:57, Travis)

 

“The system does not work if every gear in it is not functioning properly.” (1:06:26, Travis)

 

“Having a system that's not functioning well does not benefit victims of these crimes either.” (1:08:17, Michelle)

 

Contact Hunter Parnell:

[email protected]

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