Mary O'Carroll welcomes Ben Campbell (General Counsel, Deloitte) to unpack how law firms can—and must—learn from consulting and advisory firms. With a career that spans the DOJ, BigLaw, and now a top in‑house role, Ben offers a unique vantage on how governance, compensation, pricing and talent models are evolving.

In this episode:

• Outcome‑based billing: Ben walks through how outcome‑based (versus hourly) billing shifts incentives, aligns with the client, and drives efficiency.
• Governance at scale: At Deloitte, the partnership model combines with a layered board/CEO structure—getting buy‑in from hundreds of partners and deploying resources across businesses.
• Talent & career flexibility: Moving beyond "lockstep" life‑path models, Ben discusses how allowing flexible progression and acknowledging different career goals helps retain and grow talent.
• AI & disruption: The "pyramid" leverage model (many junior + a few senior) is under pressure. Routine tasks will be automated; strategic judgment will remain the premium play.
• What law firms can borrow now: From shared back‑offices and staffing flexibility to outcome‑pricing and more dynamic governance—Ben makes the case for law firms to evolve before "behind" becomes the new norm.

If you're wondering how the next chapter of legal and professional services might look, this conversation is a must‑listen—smart, candid and forward‑leaning.

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