I could share theater stories with Tony all day long. As both an actor and director of great stature, his knowledge of the theater and its strengths and weaknesses is impressive.

We talk about the myth of the “dying” theater and the “aging” demographic. Tony points out that both the theater and the audiences have been “dying” since birth, to be replaced by new cohorts. His view is that people most appreciate the arts in their middle age and beyond. It’s not all that surprising that younger people often have far less interest.

I brought up the “drama within a drama” when an audience medical emergency stops a play, and those times when the “fourth wall” needs to be broken (or shouldn’t be). We’re both big Kevin Kline fans, and we have appropriate “fourth wall” stories (Tony’s is far better).

Money is a chronic problem for the arts, because debt kills the ability to experiment and the freedom to fail. It’s dangerous for the arts to become conservative and afraid.

We’ve both been colleagues of Oskar Eustis, who is now the artistic director of The Public in New York City, and who’s brought works such as Hamilton to the stage. We parse what Oskar has meant in his writing and speaking about “art being neither red nor blue, but for everyone.”

The “Netflix” phenomenon has created serious problems for movies, but there is no such comparison with live theater. Since Thespis began the art form, and two people began speaking to each other on stage, creating dramatic tension and a storyline, the culture of the theater has remained a central element of society. The recent actors’ strike since we recorded this session brings even more relevance to our discussion.

I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.