American and Russian leaders will meet in Saudi Arabia this week to begin negotiations about a peace deal for Ukraine. Trump said on Sunday he could be meeting Russian President Vladimir Putin "very soon".

Meanwhile, Ukrainian president Zelensky has said he has not been involved in the talks yet, and European leaders have also been left out. After Defence Secretary Pete Hegseth said Ukraine should not join NATO, should other member states be worried?

Marianna and Sarah join Matt Chorley to talk about the changing relationship between the US and NATO under the new Trump administration.

We also talk to 5 Live listeners about Project 2025, the state of the US media, and how the Democrats are resisting Trump this time around.

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This episode was made by Rufus Gray and Catherine Fusillo. The technical producer was Frank McWeeny. The series producer is Purvee Pattni. The senior news editor is Sam Bonham.

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