Right now, someone, somewhere is being cancelled. Off-the-cuff tweets or "harmless" office banter have the potential to wreck lives. The Left condemns the Right, and the bigotry of the old elites. The Right complains about brain-dead political correctness, and the erosion of liberal values. In reality, both sides are colluding in a reactionary, exclusionary politics that is as self-defeating as it is divisive. Can the Left escape this extremism and stay true to the progressive ideals it once professed?

In this provocative conversation based on his new book, Umut Özkirimli reveals the similarities between right-wing populism and radical identity politics, and sets out an alternative vision.

Shermer and Özkirimli discuss: identity politics, cancel culture • woke, TERF, anti-fragility, anti-racism • diversity, equity, and inclusion • Ibram X. Kendi, Robin DiAngelo • Loretta Ross, rape, retributive vs. restorative justice • Woman's March • leftism, progressivism, democratic socialism, liberalism, classical liberalism, libertarianism, conservatism, populism, nationalism, white nationalism, authoritarianism, tyranny • moral panics • MAGA, Trump • victimhood • safetyism • trigger warnings, safe spaces, microaggressions • What Went Wrong?

Umut Özkirimli is a senior research fellow at IBEI (Institut Barcelona d'Estudis Internacionals), a professor at Blanquerna, Ramon Llull University, and a senior research associate at CIDOB (Barcelona Centre for International Affairs). His writings appear in the Guardian, openDemocracy, Times Higher Education, Huffington Post, among others. Find him on Twitter at @UOzkirimli and umutozkirimli.com.