"I talk to people and I record it. That's it." - Joe Rogan

People often say that we all need to learn to communicate better, and that is true. But we need to invest more effort on the listening side than the talking side.

Joe Rogan and Charlamagne tha God are standout media personalities and cultural icons. They are also fantastic listeners and exceptional conversationalists. Their ability to prepare for and host interviews has earned them millions of subscribers and billions of downloads, making it easier to get their choice of guests.

What can all professionals learn from their approach to listening and conversation?

In this episode of the Art of Supply podcast, Kelly Barner dissects what makes Joe Rogan and Charlamagne tha God so effective:

• How they developed their unique interviewing and conversational styles
• The atmosphere they create for guests and the information/perspective that results
• An unwavering sense of authenticity and respect for their audience

Links:

• Charlamagne tha God on the importance of replacing small talk with big conversations
• Kelly Barner on LinkedIn
• Art of Supply LinkedIn newsletter
• Art of Supply on AOP
• Subscribe to This Week in Procurement

Who will decide when EV trucking goes from being an option available to anyone to an enforceable mandate that everyone must comply with?

That question is at the heart of this week's interview.

Kelly Barner had the opportunity to speak with Nebraska Attorney General Michael Hilgers. His state is on the front lines of a legal effort to ensure that if regulations end up driving the EV transition, that those regulations are properly established - undertaken by elected officials with a vested interest in the people of Nebraska and the dozens of states who have stepped up to support their challenges.

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), the state of California, and heavy duty truck manufacturers are trying to usher in changes that will have wide-reaching impact. Will that impact be for the better or the worse, and do they have the right to proceed?

Listen in for a highly engaging discussion at the intersection of the law and the supply chain:

• Why it is important to address the proprietary of regulations before they take effect
• Uncertainty caused by the current state of enforceable regulations in California
• The role that competition should play in a market where companies make independent decisions

Links:

• AG Michael Hilgers on LinkedIn
• Kelly Barner on LinkedIn
• Art of Supply LinkedIn newsletter
• Art of Supply on AOP
• Subscribe to This Week in Procurement

"If anyone thinks that they know it all, they're in the wrong place." - Dylan Admire

The series of relationships that make the freight industry work is like a supply chain in and of itself. Under the freight agent model, agents help shippers find capacity through brokers who hold carrier contracts, facilitate financing and payments, and carry the MC number under which the agent operates.

When this model works well, everyone wins–but when it doesn't work as all of the parties expect, the fallout can be substantial.

In this week's Art of Supply interview, Kelly Barner speaks with Dylan Admire, CEO and Owner of Freight Essentials. His company has brought two RICO lawsuits against connected brokerages, claiming multi-party intent to defraud customers and business partners through anticompetitive tactics.

Listen to this episode to hear:

• How the freight agent model is supposed to work–and what can happen if it doesn't work as everyone expects
• The current status of his lawsuits and ideal outcome
• Why he has made the decision to speak out when others might have stayed quiet

Links:

• Dylan Admire on LinkedIn
• Kelly Barner on LinkedIn
• Art of Supply LinkedIn newsletter
• Art of Supply on AOP
• Subscribe to This Week in Procurement

"It is almost always the cover-up rather than the event that causes trouble." - Tennessee Senator Howard Baker, in reference to the Watergate scandal

Whether you shop at Macy's or not, you surely know the brand. In 2023, Macy's was the leading department store in the United States by revenue, with sales of approximately $23 Billion.

On November 25, 2024, Macy's delayed an earnings announcement planned for the next day. They had discovered some "creative accounting" and wanted to conduct an internal investigation. Two weeks later, they announced that small parcel delivery expenses had been mishandled - approximately $150 Million worth.

As we then learned, what started as a mistake turned into a coverup, eventually leading to a share selloff, and one accounting employee being terminated.

In this episode of the Art of Supply podcast, Kelly Barner:

• Explains what happened and how the issue was uncovered
• Shares the role that the commonly-used accrual accounting method may have played
• Review some of the speculation that has emerged in the absence of specifics
• And flag ongoing concerns for the company and their auditing firm

Links:

• Kelly Barner on LinkedIn
• Art of Supply LinkedIn newsletter
• Art of Supply on AOP
• Subscribe to This Week in Procurement

"Now an unelected group of powerful actors has opened a three-front effort to transform the nation's logistics fleet from diesel-powered to electric-powered at a breakneck pace. This terrible policy is being crafted almost entirely out of public view. Nebraska is fighting back." -Mike Hilgers, Nebraska Attorney General (WSJ Op Ed, Jan 17 2025)

If you expected the transition from diesel-powered to EV trucking to take place on the open road, think again. Instead, it looks like this systemic change will work its way through the court system.

Nebraska is leading the resistance to a forced transition on multiple fronts: in the state of California, with the Environmental Protection Agency, and via an antitrust lawsuit against four major heavy duty truck manufacturers.

Any regulatory changes, well intentioned or otherwise, have the potential to completely disrupt logistics and lives, and must be taken with a great deal of care and consideration.

In this episode of the Art of Supply podcast, Kelly Barner covers recent developments in the EV trucking transition:

• Recent news that may alter the expected timeline for transitioning away from fossil fuel-powered trucking
• Legislative exceptions that put California in a uniquely powerful position relative to emissions regulations
• The odd 'in between' space the country currently finds itself in

Links:

• Kelly Barner on LinkedIn
• Art of Supply LinkedIn newsletter
• Art of Supply on AOP
• Subscribe to This Week in Procurement

"India is putting their money where their mouth is. If they're able to execute upon a free trade agreement or a pseudo free trade agreement...then that would create the fluidity to buoy all of those ships in that harbor." - Samir Kapadia - Managing Principal at Vogel Group and Founder and CEO at India Index

Regardless of the topic, 2024 was filled with 'what if' conversations. We were waiting to find out who would win the U.S. Presidential election–and therefore whose policies would be dominating business decisions in 2025 and beyond.

Of all of the conversations had on the Art of Supply podcast, one of the most compelling was with Samir Kapadia, Managing Principal at Vogel Group and Founder and CEO at India Index. He joined Kelly Barner in 2024 to share his expertise on global trade, but more specifically, how India's ascendency as a global trading partner is being watched as companies look for alternatives to China and nations flush with Chinese investment.

After such a riveting pre-election conversation, Kelly brought Samir back to bring the conversation up-to-date and get a sense of how new trade policy will impact supply chain decisions and global manufacturing potential.

In this episode of the Art of Supply podcast, Kelly and Samir cover how the upcoming presidential term is going to:

• Change the way the U.S. manages policy within the Department of Commerce and Trade and U.S. Trade Representative
• Use strategic tariff regimes to increase reciprocity and incentivize supply chain organizations to think differently about where they get their materials
• Create an opportunity for India to replace China as a major manufacturing trade partner

Links:

• Samir Kapadia on LinkedIn
• Evaluating India as a Viable Alternative to China
• Kelly Barner on LinkedIn
• Art of Supply LinkedIn newsletter
• Art of Supply on AOP
• Subscribe to This Week in Procurement

"We have that emotional pull to group together as humans and fight the automation. The reality is you cannot have one without the other, and they are very much working together." -Matt Naslund, Chief Commercial Officer, Mytra

As businesses look to streamline operations and optimize decision-making, a combination of hardware, software, and automation offer a solution. The challenge then becomes figuring out where automation makes sense–and how quickly and heavily organizations should implement solutions that enable it.

No matter the level of sophistication or maturity of an organization, automation technology is a key factor in driving efficiency and accessing data that allows them to hit business objectives related to material flows, accumulation of goods, seasonality, and more.

In this episode of the Art of Supply podcast, Kelly Barner sits down with Matt Naslund, Chief Commercial Officer at Mytra, to examine:

• The specific challenges warehouses face in streamlining operations
• The necessary balance of automation hardware and software in improving operations
• The way warehouses can use the data that automation delivers to inform day-to-day decision-making

Links:

• Matt Naslund on LinkedIn
• Kelly Barner on LinkedIn
• Art of Supply LinkedIn newsletter
• Art of Supply on AOP
• Subscribe to This Week in Procurement

In 2001, Jim Collins published the book 'Good to Great.' He was supported by a team that invested 10.5 'people years' over the course of 5 calendar years to figure out what allows some good companies to become great companies.

Their research revealed key findings about leadership, use of technology, building a team, company culture, and vision.

In this episode of the Art of Supply podcast, Kelly Barner re-reads 'Good to Great' in light of 2025 business conditions:

• Reviewing some of the key points from the book as an introduction or a refresher
• Considering how they apply to work, leadership, and success in 2025
• Sharing a renewed sense of energy and promise at the start of a new year

Links:

• Kelly Barner on LinkedIn
• Art of Supply LinkedIn newsletter
• Art of Supply on AOP
• Subscribe to This Week in Procurement

Many of the supply chain news stories we covered in 2024 look ready to carry right over - or even rise to the top - as we start a new year.

Some of these stories are likely to re-emerge with the incoming Trump Administration, while others are ready for a change in direction thanks to geopolitics. Supply chain professionals that already have an eye out for breaking news will be best positioned to respond as needed.

In this episode of the Art of Supply podcast, Kelly Barner highlights five 2024 news stories that are likely to remain topical in the new year:

• The global distance traveled by raw materials and finished products compared to their value
• Red Sea tensions and the need for ocean freight to find a new (safer) path to travel
• The EV trucking mandate rolled out by the EPA under the Biden Administration
• De minimis shipping provisions that have created a 'maximus' problem
• An as yet unresolved organized labor contract governing operations at East and Gulf Coast ports

Links:

• Kelly Barner on LinkedIn
• Art of Supply LinkedIn newsletter
• Art of Supply on AOP
• Subscribe to This Week in Procurement

This year on Art of Supply, we welcomed a fantastic group of guests. Each interview episode creates two kinds of challenges: asking questions worthy of the guest's expertise and capturing a conversation that lives up to audience expectations.

Looking back on the interviews we ran in 2024, there are a few key messages that stand out, as individual points of view and what they collectively offer supply chain professionals as we move into 2025.

Don't ever make a decision solely on short term cost.

Victor Suarez: Former Lead Vaccine Program Manager for Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine in Operation Warp Speed at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Founder and Principal Growth Partner, Blu Zone Bioscience & Supply Chain Solutions, LLC

Make sure you understand the underlying economics of any strategy you plan to implement.

Thomas Goldsby: Dee and Jimmy Haslam Chair of Logistics at the Haslam College of Business at the University of Tennessee-Knoxville, Co-Executive Director of their Global Supply Chain Institute

Knowing how to be an effective problem solver - even in difficult circumstances.

Ashley Hubka: Senior Vice President and General Manager at Walmart Business

In this episode of the Art of Supply podcast, Kelly Barner shares excerpts of the three interviews and comments on how they connect.

Links:

• Victor Suarez on LinkedIn
• Sending a Powerful Message About America's Pharmaceutical Independence
• Thomas Goldsby on LinkedIn
• Supply Chains as Business in Action
• Ashley Hubka on LinkedIn
• Creating a B2C to B to C Improvement Cycle at Walmart Business
• Kelly Barner on LinkedIn
• Art of Supply LinkedIn newsletter
• Art of Supply on AOP
• Subscribe to This Week in Procurement