In this episode, guest host Dr. Jacob Fleming interviews Dr. Dan Nguyen about MSK and neurologic pain interventions, specifically how he evaluates and treats different types of headaches at his practice.

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Dr. Nguyen left academia and the East Coast 6 years ago, where he trained in neurointerventional radiology and pain intervention to open his own practice in Oklahoma City after visiting Dr. Beall. He now has a clinic where he sees musculoskeletal and neurologic pain patients. He enjoys the long term relationships he has built with many patients in his practice. He still does a degree of diagnostic work so as not to lose his skills.

Next, Dr. Nguyen discusses how he evaluates and treats headaches as a neurological pain interventionalist. Understanding the neuroanatomy of the face is key. He tries to understand the presentation of the patient’s headaches, whether it is located above the eyebrow, near the ear or at the jaw. He treats cervicogenic headache, trigeminal neuralgia and occipital neuralgia with a diagnostic block, radiofrequency ablation and neuromodulation. He also treats migrainous headaches. After determining whether the pain is musculogenic or neurogenic, he does a trigger point injection or a test injection of the nerve, followed by RFA and neuromodulation.

Dr. Nguyen tells us his approach to trigeminal neuralgia workup. There are three branches, and the Gasserian ganglion (trigeminal ganglion) lies deep to the foramen ovale. To approach it, he usually tries to target the most peripheral nerve branch. For V1, he evaluates the supraorbital, supratrochlear nerves, which you can see with ultrasound. For V2, he evaluates the infraorbital with ultrasound. The foramen rotundundum requires CT guidance to access. For V3 he evaluates the mental and alveolar nerves or the foramen ovale. He does diagnostic blocks, and if this provides relief to the patient they discuss radiofrequency ablation. He advises operators to take the longest path to the nerve to ensure the ablative needle is fully buried under the skin to avoid burns. He also discusses the rare outcome of anesthesia dolorosa which can cause facial numbness and pain after ablation of the Gasserian ganglion. He says that for most of his patients, they accept this potential risk due to the more likely possibility of relief from the excruciating pain they experience with trigeminal neuralgia.

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RESOURCES

Dr. Nguyen Twitter:

@neuroradiology

Narouze: Interventional Management of Head and Face Pain

https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-1-4614-8951-1

American Society of Spine Radiology:

https://assrannualmeeting.org

American Society of Neuroradiology:

https://www.asnr.org/annualmeeting/

In this episode, guest host Jill Sommerset interviews vascular surgeon Dr. Miguel Montero-Baker about his evolving use of ultrasound throughout his career in caring for critical limb-threatening ischemia (CLTI) patients.

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Boston Scientific Eluvia Drug-Eluting Stent

https://www.bostonscientific.com/en-US/medical-specialties/vascular-surgery/drug-eluting-therapies/eluvia/eluvia-clinical-trials.html?utm_source=oth_site&utm_medium=native&utm_campaign=pi-at-us-de_portfolio-hci&utm_content=n-backtable-n-backtable_site_eluvia_1&cid=n10008043

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Dr. Montero-Baker starts by outlining his journey from training in Costa Rica, Germany, and Arizona, to building a multidisciplinary limb salvage center at Methodist Houston. Despite his geographic relocations, he is still very involved in endovascular education in Latin America through HENDOLAT, an online community and annual conference.

Next, we delve into the uses for ultrasound during the workup stages for CLTI. Dr. Montero-Baker highlights the information that ultrasound can provide: locating the region and extent of disease, pursuing an open versus endovascular treatment approach, and the tools you will need. He points out that a lot of institutions currently only rely on pulse volume recording (PVR), ankle brachial index (ABI), and toe brachial index (TBI), and do not have access to a robust vascular lab for full ultrasounds. Dr. Montero-Baker discusses some hurdles preventing the widespread implementation of ultrasound, such as additional cost and variability in operators.

However, he believes that ultrasound can be a phenomenal tool if practices can invest the time to train vascular technologists and implement its use. We frame the ultrasound conversation around incentives for each party: the technologist can achieve higher job satisfaction and further subspecialize, the treating physician can have a better understanding of each patient’s disease and management, and the institution can minimize extended stays and readmissions. Additionally, ultrasound is very useful when institutions are facing the global contrast shortage or treating patients with renal disease.

Finally, we look at the pathophysiology of diabetic and chronic renal failure patients who have extreme below the knee and below the ankle disease. These patients with medial artery calcification patterns have very few treatment options and high limb loss rates. Dr. Montero-Baker describes a new method of pedal venous access for deep vein arterialization.

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RESOURCES

BackTable en Espanol- Enfermedad Arterial Periférica y Salvamento de Extremidades en la Comunidad Latino Americana:

https://www.backtable.com/shows/vi/podcasts/%20v/enfermedad-arterial-periferica-y-salvamento-de-extremidades-en-la-comunidad-latino-americana

Dr. Miguel Montero-Baker’s Twitter:

https://twitter.com/monteromiguel

HENDOLAT:

https://hendolat.com/

Society for Vascular Ultrasound:

In this episode, guest host Dr. Donald Garbett interviews Drs. Geogy Vatakencherry, Zaeem Billah, and Kartik Kansagra about the IR integrated residency, how it’s evolving, and what students should be doing to prepare for this rigorous training program.

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Medtronic IN.PACT 018 DCB

https://www.medtronic.com/018

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We begin by discussing the VIR program at Kaiser LA. As the program director, Dr. Vatakencherry discusses how he built his residency program and how it has evolved since the inception of the integrated iR residencies. One integral part of this program is weekly continuity clinic, starting in your first year. Dr. Kansagra brought up the idea to Dr. Vatakencherry after noticing that other surgical specialties and interventional cardiology were doing this. This model allows residents to develop longitudinal relationships with patients, understand disease progression and the importance of preventive care and nonoperative management.

Next, Dr. Billah discusses his training at Kaiser LA, as a resident in the first year of the new integrated IR residency. They have a categorical program, with a surgery intern year included. He highly suggests that all IR residents should do a surgery year due to its similarity to IR and the skills it provides you. Whether on DR, ICU or IR, all IR residents have daily IR conferences. ICU training begins in the first year, which includes MICU, SICU and CCU rotations. In the PGY-5 year, they get consecutive rotations in stroke neurology and neurointervention.

Finally we discuss the future of the VIR integrated residency. Dr. Vatakencherry believes that clinic time is quintessential during IR residency to understand the nuances of “should vs. could” when it comes to operative intervention. In clinic, not only do you see what you do well but more importantly, you see what you don't do well and how you can fix that. This clinical experience cannot be replicated in a year of fellowship. Lastly, Dr. Vatakencherry gives some extremely pertinent advice to fourth year medical students applying to IR integrated residency.

In this episode, our host Dr. Aaron Fritts and Dr. Jason Iannuccilli dive into the history, science, and future directions of medical cannabis. We discuss Dr. Iannuccilli’s founding vision for PureVita Labs, a company focused on developing standardized testing for cannabis products and ensuring consumer safety.

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Dr. Iannuccilli starts by describing his former interventional oncology practice in Rhode Island. His interest in medical marijuana grew as he frequently found himself in conversations with terminal cancer patients who sought his medical advice to navigate the variety of products. As he learned more about this craft industry, he realized that there could be significant variations between each product type, brand, and even within each batch. With co-founders Dr. Jonathan Martin and Dr. Stuart Procter, he started the entrepreneurial journey of building a laboratory that uses innovative techniques to test and label products with accuracy. The team hopes to continue growing their services and eventually through artificial intelligence, build a platform that can recommend products to each individual consumer that will ensure them a predictable experience based on their desired therapeutic outcome.

Throughout this episode, we discuss social stereotypes and political challenges that the cannabis industry has faced in the past decades. We move past the mistaken idea that active ingredients of marijuana always cause mental dullness and lethargy, and we bring the conversation down to a molecular level to discuss CB1 receptors and anti-inflammatory benefits, and pain relief.

Finally, the doctors discuss fundraising for a nontraditional business pursuit. Dr. Iannuccilli shares how the vape crisis was a pivotal point– it served as a wake-up call for consumers and investors, leading to higher recognition of the importance of more stringent and standardized product testing. PureVita Labs has started to fundraise through friends and family with convertible notes, which are structured loans with set interest rates that allow the investor to either pull out their initial investment plus interest, or roll that value into equity once the company has established its valuation.

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RESOURCES

Pure Vita Labs:

https://purevitalabs.com/

The Bartholomewtown Podcast- Ep. 101, “Inside RI Cannabis”

https://btown.buzzsprout.com/163601/11221697-inside-ri-cannabis-presented-by-purevita-labs-cannabis-101-part-1

WHOOP:

https://www.whoop.com/

The Peter Attia Drive Podcast:

https://peterattiamd.com/podcast/

In this episode, guest host Dr. Shamit Desai interviews Dr. Keerthi Prasad about his path to starting an IR practice alongside interventional pain specialists.

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SHOW NOTES

This unique collaboration started after Dr. Prasad finished fellowship. He describes the support and investment that his anesthesiologist partners provided in helping him launch IR service lines in their existing practice. On the pain management side, he primarily performs vertebral augmentation, DRG stimulation, and nerve blocks. He has also expanded his services into vein care, since venous disease is often concomitant with PAD, wound care, and pain. Dr. Prasad emphasizes the value of focusing on specific procedures and disease states in order to provide the best and most up to date clinical care possible. This can also set you apart from other competitors and help patients identify you as their vascular specialist.

Dr. Prasad delves into the infrastructure of their centers. Their high volume of patients requires close coordination of all office and medical staff. To retain highly trained medical staff, he recommends investing in their training, minimizing office politics, and granting sufficient autonomy.

Since 2016, the Centers for Pain Control and Vein Care has expanded to multiple locations in northwest Indiana. Dr. Prasad closes the episode by speaking about practice marketing and forming new referral networks. He emphasizes the importance of identifying if there is a true clinical need to perform each procedure and following up with patients and referring doctors.

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RESOURCES

Centers for Pain Control and Vein Care:

https://www.discover-cpc.com/

In this episode, guest host Dr. Venu Vadlamudi interviews Dr. Martin Radvany about where neurointerventional training stands in 2022, including stroke training for residents, barriers that IRs face in finding training after residency, and future directions of stroke care.

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SHOW NOTES

We begin by discussing stroke training in neurointerventional radiology. The Society of Interventional Radiology (SIR) has been prioritizing stroke training for IRs for years, with their former Clots Course and current Stroke Course, with Dr. Vadlamudi and Dr. Radvany as the directors of the course. This course occurs at the annual SIR meetings. Courses such as these are necessary because many residents aren’t trained in neurointervention but when they get out in the community the need is there and their employers often expect them to be able to provide stroke care. Dr. Vadlamudi hopes to grow the stroke course and eventually break away from the annual SIR meeting into it’s own free-standing course, such as has been done with the Y90 course.

Next, we cover some of the barriers to IRs getting involved in stroke care. Often, practitioners with years of experience want or need to start performing neuroendovascular interventions but didn’t get a lot of experience in their training. Industry support is an important area that requires some growth to be able to support this pathway for IRs already in practice. Simulators are also a key aspect in training, and we discuss the possibilities of leveraging this for stroke training. By bringing patient specific anatomy into the simulator, anyone could use this to train in stroke thrombectomy and be able to practice with a patient's unique anatomy before performing the actual case.

Finally, we discuss what trainees should expect going forward in IR residency and neuro fellowship. Interventional radiology is becoming very clinical, and it is important for trainees to focus on this. Spend the time in the ICU and on the floor. Knowing how to take care of your patients is essential in IR; we need to do more than just master the procedures. There are many ways to get training in stroke intervention. Mentorship at all levels is important and encouraged to push the field forward.

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RESOURCES

Outcomes of Stroke Thrombectomy Performed by Interventional Radiologists versus Neurointerventional Physicians:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35150837/

In this episode, host Dr. Aaron Fritts interviews Drs. Chad Laurich and Neal Khurana about how they looked past traditional competition between IR and vascular surgery to build a multidisciplinary practice to meet market need and provide comprehensive patient care for an underserved community in South Dakota.

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SHOW NOTES

We begin by discussing how Dr. Khurana joined Dr. Laurich at his practice in South Dakota. When Dr. Laurich opened his solo practice, he realized there was a lack of medical care in the community and he knew he would not be able to meet the demand on his own. He decided he wanted to bring an IR to his group due to his respect for IR and the breadth of procedural and clinical knowledge they would bring. He knew that their combined skills would provide better patient care than hiring another vascular surgeon.

Next, we discuss the concept of collaboration over competition in vascular surgery and interventional radiology. Dr. Khurana advises that in order to enter into a partnership such as this, you have to understand that you are not the only one able to do endovascular work, that there are vascular surgery and interventional cardiology colleagues who are extremely talented in vascular intervention. All egos must be put aside, and you must never forget that the goal is to help the patient. Dr. Khurana joined Dr. Laurich with this mindset and an eagerness to learn as much as he could to benefit their community.

Dr. Laurich and Dr. Khurana hope this collaborative model grows in popularity among all endovascular specialists. The OBL model affords physician autonomy, excellence in patient care, and provides an out from the burnout caused by the hospital grind. What ends up happening at a well designed and operated OBL is that everyone wins: physicians, patients and staff. This VS-IR powerhouse hopes to provide master courses in the future for physicians to learn how to master certain diseases or procedures that they need to run a successful multidisciplinary endovascular OBL.

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RESOURCES

Ep. 129: OBL/ASC Business Pearls:

https://www.backtable.com/shows/vi/podcasts/129/obl-asc-business-pearls

Ep. 205: Update on Reimbursement Cuts for the OBL/ASC:

https://www.backtable.com/shows/vi/podcasts/205/update-on-reimbursement-cuts-for-the-obl-asc

In this episode, our host Dr. Aaron Fritts interviews physician-entrepreneur couple Drs. Kasie and Rockford Adkins about the path to starting their healthcare recruiting platform, STAT Careers.

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Athletic Greens

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SHOW NOTES

Our guests describe their firsthand experiences with job searching in IR and Mohs surgery. Completing fellowship programs at different times and moving to different cities made it difficult to negotiate hiring contracts. Dr. Kasie Adkins recounts her frustration with the high cost of third party recruiters and a lack of transparency about pay and job structure during the application process. She also highlights the need to level the playing field for skilled physicians who are underrepresented in certain specialties.

To learn more about pain points in hiring and retention of healthcare professionals, the doctors reached out to their hospital administrators and colleagues. They compiled this market research into an online web application that matches candidates to positions. STAT Careers allows candidates to filter positions based on factors such as skill set, call schedule, and location, free of charge. Each employer can build a custom template for each position that lists specific characteristics and responsibilities.

The founders outline their growth trajectory, from building their initial algorithm, to hiring full time employees, to seeking international opportunities. Currently, they are developing ways to better match applicants to positions based on culture fit. We close the episode by discussing the importance of learning from retention rates and remaining transparent to optimize team function.

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RESOURCES

STAT Careers:

https://statcareers.com/?utm_source=Backtable&utm_medium=Podcast&utm_campaign=A+better+job+for+you

The Staggering Costs of Physician Turnover:

https://www.todayshospitalist.com/staggering-costs-physician-turnover/

Physician Turnover: A Costly Problem:

https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?p=AONE&u=googlescholar&id=GALE%7CA414692555&v=2.1&it=r&sid=AONE&asid=53fcd53a

The Cost of Nurse Turnover:

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/the-cost-of-nurse-turnover-by-the-numbers.html

Beyond perception: the role of gender across marketing scholars’ careers, in reply to Galak and Kahn (2021):

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11002-021-09585-5

VA National Teleradiology Program:

Email [email protected]

Episode 110- When That First Physician Job Isn’t a Good Fit:

https://www.backtable.com/shows/vi/podcasts/110/when-that-first-physician-job-isnt-a-good-fit

Episode 201- Jobs: The Good, The Bad, and The Snugly:

https://www.backtable.com/shows/vi/podcasts/201/jobs-the-good-the-bad-the-snugly

Episode 202- Staffing the OBL:

https://www.backtable.com/shows/vi/podcasts/202/staffing-the-obl

In this episode, cohosts Dr. Michael Barraza and Dr. Aaron Fritts interview Dr. Chris Thomson, veterinary surgeon and interventional radiologist about how he learned veterinary IR, his area of focus in interventional oncology, and the future of the specialty.

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SHOW NOTES

Dr. Thomson begins by taking us through his training. During his residency at the University of Minnesota, Shamar Young taught him embolizations and interventional oncology at the medical school and the veterinary school there. He then adapted it to dogs. He then did a surgical oncology fellowship at Colorado State which grew his passion for practicing interventional oncology. There is no training specifically for IR; you train in your specialty of cardiology or oncology, then go on to learn IR skills later in practice.

In the interventional oncology world, Dr. Thomson does prostate artery embolizations for prostate tumors, chemoembolizations, and caval and urethral stents for malignant obstructions. He primarily treats cats and dogs, but occasionally he will help out with an intervention for an animal at the San Diego Zoo. He recently helped do renal sclerotherapy for a dik-dik to treat idiopathic renal hematuria. Dr. Thomson discusses some of the challenges he faces with the different sizes of animals he treats. The size of the animal and the size of the equipment often don’t match up well which poses many technical difficulties for the operator.

We end by discussing the future of veterinary IR. In the cardiovascular IR world, veterinary specialists are beginning to do endovascular valve replacements. In the interventional oncology world, radiofrequency ablation and cementoplasty for appendicular bone tumors is the next big procedure that will impact many patients. Dr. Thomson is excited about being able to provide this minimally invasive treatment for his cat and dog patients as it will prevent many amputations and allow his patients to receive chemotherapy while retaining the highest quality of life possible.

In this episode, host Dr. Jacob Fleming interviews Dr. Jack Jennings about cryoablation, multidisciplinary care, and practice building for the treatment of desmoid tumors.

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First, Dr. Jennings describes the typical presentation of desmoid tumors, also known as “aggressive fibromatosis.” These are neoplasms of fibrous connective tissue, but unlike sarcomas, they do not metastasize to other parts of the body. We quickly review characteristic imaging findings such as hypointense T1 and T2 signals. In the last decade, sorafenib (tyrosine kinase inhibitor) was established as a therapy for desmoid tumors. However, since sorafenib has failed to show significant efficacy, there has been exploration into other treatments such as surgical resection and cryoablation.

Dr. Jennings encourages IRs to attend sarcoma tumor boards to learn about desmoid cases and opportunities to perform cryoablations when desmoids cannot be surgically resected. In extra-abdominal desmoids, cryoablation is ideal, since the interventionist can see the low attenuation ice ball forming and sculpt ablation zones to match irregular desmoid shapes. Dr. Jennings recommends forming a 10mm ablation margin around the tumor. Additionally, he discusses both active and passive thermal protection techniques for surrounding tissues. He utilizes carbon dioxide, hydropneumodissection, and motor/somatosensory evoked potentials to keep non-target tissues out of the ablation zone. The bowel and nerves (especially in the extremities) are critically important to avoid.

For post-procedural care, Dr. Jennings emphasizes that pain is very common, due to large inflammatory responses. He usually admits patients overnight to monitor pain levels and give IV Decadron. Patients are then sent home with Medrol Dosepak. We also talk about the importance of informed consent about pain and potential nerve injuries.

Finally, we discuss how IRs can be advocates for patients with desmoids. Dr. Jennings believes that preemptive measures can go a long way when talking to third party payers. He will usually include current National Comprehensive Cancer Network (NCCN) guidelines and current cryoablation papers in his clinic notes to support his recommendations. He also encourages IRs to collaborate with oncologists, surgeons, and radiation oncologists to craft the best treatment plan for their patients.

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RESOURCES

Washington University MSK Interventions:

https://www.mir.wustl.edu/education/subspecialty-programs/musculoskeletal-imaging-and-interventions/

Neuroanatomic Considerations in Percutaneous Tumor Ablation:

https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/10.1148/rg.334125141

Anatomically Based Guidelines for Core Needle Biopsy of Bone Tumors: Implications for Limb-sparing Surgery:

https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/10.1148/rg.271065092

National Comprehensive Cancer Network (NCCN) Guidelines for Soft Tissue Sarcomas (including Desmoid Tumors):

https://www.nccn.org/guidelines/guidelines-detail?category=1&id=1464

Society for Interventional Oncology (SIO):

http://www.sio-central.org/

Cryoablation for Palliation of Painful Bone Metastases: The MOTION Multicenter Study:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8011449/