Top Traders Unplugged

Best of TTU – How to Test a Model Over Decades of Data


Listen Later

I often see the press write that too much money is chasing the same trends, and this being the reason that Trend Following strategies have been performing a little under par in the last few years.  So who better to ask if this really is true, than my friend Kathryn Kaminski, who of course co-wrote the bible on Trend Following with Alex Greyserman… as well as a book with me, that you can find on my website.  We also discussed how they conducted their research for their book, where they went back a very long time to test if Trend Following models really do work over centuries of data… so I think you will find this part of particular interest.  I hope you enjoy these unique takeaways from my conversation with Kathryn and if you would like to listen to the full conversation, just go to Top Traders Unplugged Episode 41 & Episode 42.
Return of the Trend: 'It's all about Correlation'
Niels:  I had a question the other day from someone here based in Switzerland, Roman, in fact, and he asked about people's perception about Trend Following that perhaps it's performed poorly in the last couple of years because there's been too much money chasing Trend Following after the great year of 2008. When you hear something like that, what comes to mind?
Katy:  Well, I actually just wrote an article which is coming out for Eurex on this exact topic, and I call it Return of the Trend: It's All About Correlation. I'll just give you a view on this. If you look at a Trend Following system, any portfolio system in general, we depend on correlation. We depend on the diversification across markets, and regardless of looking at the capacity in the industry, not even thinking about that, if you take a graph of correlations pre in the last twenty years, it almost looks like a step function. So up until 2008 the correlations are pretty low across all futures markets, and they just shot through the roof in 2008 and they stayed there until earlier this year, or until late 2013. If you think about portfolio construction, the returns of Trend Following is driven by divergence and we've had some divergence over this period of time: quantitative easing, all sorts of events like the nuclear meltdown in Japan, those are diversion events, but in this sharp ratio is also the diversification and the risk. When you construct a portfolio, it's not only the volatility, which has been low, but also the correlation across assets that allows you to have proper diversification. Correlation being high means diversification is low, which means that even though there maybe some trends, there's a lot of risk because it's sort of like a one trade world. If you look at that, that coincides with a period that has been difficult for Trend Following strategies. So they do have profits in some areas, but there was just not enough diversification across their portfolio I think to support their performance as consistent with history.

Niels:  Sure, sure. The next area I want to talk about is what usually is the trading program, but today, in our conversation it will be about the trading strategy or the model, however  you phrase it, that you've used in your study that really represents the performance over this long period. Tell me about how you and Alex constructed this and feel free to go into as much detail as you want.
Katy:  OK, yeah, this is a very important and good question, Niels. One of the chapters of our book that I'm most excited about is actually chapter 3, and this is one called Systematic Trend Following Basics. I found that when I looked at most other books on trend following, and those sort of descriptions, it's very hard to find a specific formula that you could use as "this is the formula" for Trend Following.  So what we did, instead, is we tried to create a framework with one formula.

'..we focus on creating one formula for Position Sizing, which is a function of several key variables."
...more
View all episodesView all episodes
Download on the App Store

Top Traders UnpluggedBy Niels Kaastrup-Larsen

  • 4.8
  • 4.8
  • 4.8
  • 4.8
  • 4.8

4.8

561 ratings


More shows like Top Traders Unplugged

View all
Chat With Traders by Ian Cox and Tessa Dao

Chat With Traders

1,987 Listeners

Odd Lots by Bloomberg

Odd Lots

1,796 Listeners

Macro Voices by Hedge Fund Manager Erik Townsend

Macro Voices

3,063 Listeners

The Meb Faber Show - Better Investing by The Idea Farm

The Meb Faber Show - Better Investing

938 Listeners

Superinvestors and the Art of Worldly Wisdom by Jesse Felder

Superinvestors and the Art of Worldly Wisdom

414 Listeners

The Market Huddle by Patrick Ceresna & Kevin Muir

The Market Huddle

363 Listeners

Excess Returns by Excess Returns

Excess Returns

66 Listeners

Macro Hive Conversations With Bilal Hafeez by Bilal Hafeez

Macro Hive Conversations With Bilal Hafeez

93 Listeners

The Grant Williams Podcast by Grant Williams

The Grant Williams Podcast

1,352 Listeners

Supply Shock by Blockworks

Supply Shock

115 Listeners

Forward Guidance by Blockworks

Forward Guidance

277 Listeners

The Macro Trading Floor by Alfonso Peccatiello & Brent Donnelly

The Macro Trading Floor

214 Listeners

Macro Mondays by Andreas Steno Larsen

Macro Mondays

26 Listeners

Thoughtful Money with Adam Taggart by Adam Taggart | Thoughtful Money

Thoughtful Money with Adam Taggart

379 Listeners

Monetary Matters with Jack Farley by Jack Farley

Monetary Matters with Jack Farley

91 Listeners