Better Off Dead

Victoria’s Voluntary Assisted Dying law came into effect in June 2019. The first of its kind in Australia and touted as the most conservative in the world, the passing of Victoria’s law was a watershed moment for end-of-life care in this country.

More than eighteen months on, in April 2021, what effect is this law having on end-of-life care for terminally ill Victorians? Is the law working as planned? And is there room for improvement?

The final episode of Better Off Dead season two centres on a recording of the Wheeler Centre’s Last Words: Voluntary Assisted Dying panel discussion. Previously broadcast on Radio National’s Big Ideas programme, it features a panel discussion on voluntary assisted dying hosted by Paul Barclay. Panelists include Andrew Denton, founder of Go Gentle Australia and host of the Better Off Dead podcast; Justice Betty King QC, Chair of the Voluntary Assisted Dying Review Board; Professor Phillip Parente, oncologist; and Ron Poole, a terminally ill Shepparton man who has chosen to access the voluntary assisted dying life-ending medication.

Our special thanks to Ron Poole, who generously took time out of the precious final days of his life to share his perspective on voluntary assisted dying. Ron died on 26 April, less than a week after this panel discussion took place. Our thoughts are with his loved ones.

 

"People come to this often – late. And they come late because they really haven’t known about it, haven’t been told about it or are in a situation where they don’t want to face mortality."

Justice Betty King Know more

• Visit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.au
• Audio: Legalising Voluntary Assisted Dying -- Radio National’s Big Ideas programme, part of Caxton Legal Centre's 'Justice in Focus' series. Presented in conjunction with QUT. Recorded on 21 February 2019
• Visit: Voluntary Assisted Dying -- Victorian Health official website

In order of appearance: Paul Barclay, Ron Poole, Andrew Denton, Phillip Parente, Betty King

Better Off Dead season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia. 

Learn more about Go Gentle Australia’s work. 

Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia)
Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre)
Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia)
Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta
Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre)

Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia) 
Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media)
Episode Page and transcript: Alice Boyle (The Wheeler Centre)
Episode Artwork: Megan Herbert                                                                                                              
Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre)
Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser

Listen to Better Off Dead season one here, and subscribe in iTunes, or follow via your favourite podcast app.

#BetterOffDeadpod

Your stories

If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – or if you’ve had an experience with Voluntary Assisted Dying, we would love to hear from you. Tell your story here.

Transcript

Download a transcript of this episode in PDF format. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

When Victoria’s VAD law was passed in 2017, it was touted by Premier Daniel Andrews as ‘the most conservative in the world’. This was true. Its 68 safeguards made it a far more daunting law for terminally ill people to access than similar laws in other countries. 

But was it too daunting? 

Much was said in parliament by opponents about the law’s ‘unintended consequences’. What if there are wrongful deaths? What if the doctor-patient relationship is damaged? Palliative care diminished?

None of these fears have turned out to be true. But that doesn’t mean there have been no unintended consequences. They’ve just turned out to be not as opponents argued.

In this episode, we hear from the families of two eligible Victorians who struggled to access VAD. And we hear something never heard before —-- a father and daughter as they actually go through the process of applying for a VAD permit, a process during which initial gratitude quickly turns to frustration, fear and anger.

Allan Cornell and his daughter Kristin: photo Supplied

“She wrote numerous letters and made numerous phone calls to, it seemed like, 30 neurologists, but nobody would do it. And Helen's doctor said ,’I think this is gonna be a race between us getting the approval for the VAD and you dying’”

Reg Jebb

Helen and Reg Jebb. photo: Supplied

“He was dying. He was suffering. He was begging, begging me the entire day to finish it. Where are they? Kristin? Where are they? Where are they?”

Kristin Cornell

Kristin Cornell: “I am so encouraged by the existence of this legislation – but there is more we can do. We can do this better. It shouldn’t be so hard that one is tempted to give up.” Photo: Juliet Lamont

Listen Episode Extra: Doctors Discuss the Unintended Consequences of Victoria's VAD Law Embed player Know more

• Visit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.au
• Article: ‘Assisted dying is not the easy way out’ — The Conversation, 19 Feb 2020
• Article: ‘Without more detail, it’s premature to say voluntary assisted dying laws in Victoria are ‘working well’’ — The Conversation, 21 Feb 2020
• Article: ‘Heartachingly painful: Allan waited for 100 days before being granted permit to die’ — The Age, 21 June 2020

In this episode

In order of appearance: Kristin Cornell, Allan Cornell, Reg Jebb, Betty King, Greg Mewitt, Nola Maxfield, Andrea Bendrups and Nick Carr

Better Off Dead season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia.

Learn more about Go Gentle Australia’s work.

Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia)
Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre)
Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia)
Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta, with assistance from Adam Rothwell
Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre)

Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia) 
Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media)
Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre)
Episode Artwork: Megan Herbert
Transcript: Alice Boyle
Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre)
Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser
Music: James Domeyko

Special thanks to our interviewees Kristin Cornell and Reg Jebb for their time for this episode.

Footage supplied courtesy of Seven Network. All rights reserved. ©

Listen to Better Off Dead season one here, and subscribe in iTunes, or follow via your favourite podcast app.

#BetterOffDeadpod

Your stories

If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – or if you’ve had an experience with Voluntary Assisted Dying, we would love to hear from you. Tell your story here.

Transcript

Download a transcript of this episode in PDF format. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Whether it is through the words of the pope, his representatives the bishops and archbishops, or its surrogates in the medical profession, the Catholic Church remains the most determined force against voluntary assisted dying in Australia.

In 2020, The Vatican released its latest encyclical on assisted dying and euthanasia. They called it Samaritanus Bonus – the Good Samaritan – and this is what it had to say about people who seek assistance to die.

“Experience confirms that the pleas of gravely ill people who sometimes ask for death are not to be understood as implying a true desire for euthanasia; in fact, it is almost always a case of an anguished plea for help and love.”

Requests for assistance to die are ‘not to be understood as a true desire for euthanasia.’ In other words, the people making them are somehow misguided.

According to this narrative, people making such requests are likely to be demoralised; lonely; abandoned, feeling like a burden; or struggling to find meaning in – or even giving up on - their lives. And that, with the right kind of love and care, these things can be addressed.

In this episode, we hear from some of the most senior figures in Australian palliative care. We also hear from others who have a different understanding of such requests, and who believe that the people who make them can be both considered and rational.

Professor Michael Ashby Photo: Supplied

Palliative care clinician Molly Carlile AM: “It has to be about why are we doing this. Who is it for? If it's about us, we have to ask: how does our view on a whole lot of things influence our practice?” photo: Supplied

 

“It is not the role of any healthcare team to suggest that its ministrations can give meaning, purpose and dignity to a dying person’s remaining life if that person feels that these are irretrievably lost... Palliative care is a model of care, not a moral crusade.”

Professor Michael Ashby Know more

• Visit: Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.au
• Video: Assad, Assisted Dying and Satire – ABC TV Q&A, 10 April 2017
• Video: Q&A with the Archbishop - How do I explain the Catholic Church's teaching on euthanasia? – The Catholic Leader YouTube, 14 July 2014
• Video: Experienced Victorian doctors warn Tasmania on dangerous bill – Australian Care Alliance, 9 September 2020
• Video: Prof David Kissane: Euthanasia is terrible for medicine & society  – Life, Marriage and Family Office 23 June, 2017
• Article: Defending the indefensible? Psychiatry, assisted suicide and human freedom – Profesor Malcolm Parker, International Journal of Law and Psychiatry, Volume 36, issues 5-6 2013

In this episode (in order of appearance)

Ron Fellows, Margaret Somerville, Patricia Fellows, Megan Best, Mark Coleridge, Jean Caliste, Jacqui Hicks, Nicole Robertson, Deb M, Katie Harley, Kristin Cornell, Peter Jones, Ron Poole, Fiona McClure, Phillip Parente, Peter Lange, Betty King, Michael Dooley, Anthony Fisher, Stephen Parnis, Michael Ashby, Natasha Michael, David Kissane, Malcolm Parker, Roger Hunt, Molly Carlile, Greg Mewett, Shayne Higson, Alex Broom, Kit Denton, Peter Abetz, 

Credits

Better Off Dead season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia 

Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia)
Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre)
Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia)
Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta, with assistance from Adam Rothwell
Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre)

Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia) 
Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media)
Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre) 
Episode Artwork: Megan Herbert
Transcript: Alice Boyle
Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre)
Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser
Music: Simon Kindt, Aaron Gleeson, and Joe Lodge

Special thanks to our interviewees Michael Ashby, Roger Hunt, Malcolm Parker and Molly Carlile for their time for this episode.

Footage supplied courtesy of Seven Network. All rights reserved. ©

Listen to Better Off Dead season one here, and subscribe in iTunes, or follow via your favourite podcast app.

#BetterOffDeadpod

Your stories

If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – or if you’ve had an experience with voluntary assisted dying, we would love to hear from you. Tell your story here.

Transcript

Download a transcript of this episode in PDF format. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The assisted dying debate in Australia has revealed two parallel universes. The conservative Christian universe, which believes our lives belong to God; that whatever happens at the end of life is part of His plan. And the other universe – embracing 75% of Australians (including a majority of Christians) – with a shared belief we should have some control over how we die.

Two different, but both entirely sincere, belief systems.

What happens when these parallel universes intersect? What can it mean to die in a system where you are disempowered, and whose values you don’t share?

Dame Cicely Saunders Photo: Wikimedia Commons

Shayne Higson (second left), pictured with her sisters and their mother Jan (farthest right) who died of brain cancer: 'I thought that [with] terminal sedation … there would be no suffering, but that's not right' — Photo: supplied

“What people don't realise is that they're entering an environment with particular values, and a history about what is okay, or not okay, and the nature of suffering. And by entering into that the patient and the family is almost embarking on an unwritten contract – that death will be not on my terms, but on the terms of the institution”

Professor Alex Broom Know more

• Visit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.au
• Article: We do not like to talk about death -- but that doesn’t make euthanasia the answer -- Richard Chye, The Sydney Morning Herald, 14 November, 2017
• Article: Assisted dying: My mother had the best palliative care -- and even that was not enough -- Shayne Higson, The Sydney Morning Herald, 15 November, 2017
• Audio: Fearfully and Wonderfully Made (part 1) -- Megan Best, The Centre for Public Christianity, 24 June, 2013
• Film: ‘The Broken Hearted’ Go Gentle Australia, August 2019

Jan K: 'You might think you're going to have great palliative care, but it is an absolute lottery. You can scream the place down if you want but, if they think that you're comfortable, that's it.' Photo: Joshua Raymond

In this episode

In order of appearance: 

Katie Harley, Megan Best, Alex Broom, Richard Chye, Shayne Higson, Roger Hunt, Jan K.

Credits

Better Off Dead season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia 

Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia)
Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre)
Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia)
Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta
Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre)

Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia) 
Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media)
Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre)
Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre)
Episode Artwork: Megan Herbert
Transcript: Alice Boyle
Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser
Music: Aaron Gleeson

Special thanks to our interviewees Shayne Higson, Alex Broom, Roger Hunt and Jan K for their time for this episode.

Footage supplied courtesy of Seven Network. All rights reserved. ©

Listen to Better Off Dead season one here, and subscribe in iTunes, or follow via your favourite podcast app.

#BetterOffDeadpod

Your stories

If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – or if you’ve had an experience with Voluntary Assisted Dying, we would love to hear from you. Tell your story here.

Transcript

Download a transcript of this episode in PDF format. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

At the heart of the political debate around voluntary assisted dying lies palliative care. On one side sits the argument that it can effectively deal with all pain and suffering, and that it should be made available to everyone before Assisted Dying is made legal.

On the other, a recognition that – for all its benefits – palliative care cannot help everyone, and that those beyond its help should not be left to suffer, or – as some do – take their own lives.

But beyond the political debate, within palliative care lies a much deeper argument. One about values.

Palliative care’s background is as a provider of Christian care; more than half of Australia’s palliative care is supplied by The Catholic Church. According to The Vatican, assisting someone to die is ‘intrinsically evil.’

By papal decree, any request by a person for help to end their life is not to be taken as genuine, but is to be understood instead as ‘an anguished plea for help and love.’

But some palliative care clinicians have a different set of values. They see that their primary purpose is to act in response to what their patient wants and needs. 

It’s called person-centred care, a way of practising medicine that has been thrown into the sharpest focus imaginable by a law allowing doctors to help their patients to die.

Palliative care clinician, and death and dying expert Molly Carlile AM. Photo: supplied

 

‘The bottom line for me is, you can choose whether you want to stop having chemo or anything else that you consider as futile treatment. And we are the defenders of those people. So how can we say, in the same breath, “Yes, you can make your choices, so long as it's not voluntary assisted dying?”’

Palliative care clinician, Molly Carlile AM For more

• Visit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.au
• Video: Clive Deverall talk Freedom of Choice WA Launch – YouTube, 5 February 2017
• Article: Everyone Has the Right to Die Well – Molly Carlile, November 10, 2015
• Brochure: To Love to the End – Life, Marriage and Family Office, The Catholic Archdiocese of Melbourne, 2011

Dr Greg Mewett. ‘It's not for me to say how much someone's suffering and whether we can do more. It should be up to the individual.’ Photo: Juliet Lamont

In this episode

In order of appearance

Jaala Pulford, Molly Carlile, Greg Mewett, Michael Ashby, Roger Hunt, Andrew Sloane, Anthony Fisher, Megan Best, John Flader, Tim Harris, Natasha Michael, Stephen Parnis, Jane Morris, Clive Deverall, Lisa Hogg, Alex Broom, Jan Kelly

Credits

Better Off Dead season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia

Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia)
Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre)
Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia)
Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta, with assistance from Adam Rothwell
Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre)

Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia) 
Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media)
Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre) 
Episode Artwork: Megan Herbert
Transcript: Alice Boyle
Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre)
Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser
Music: Jon Murphy, Brendan John Warner, Simon Kindt, Aaron Gleeson

Special thanks to our interviewees Molly Carlile, Greg Mewett, Michael Ashby and Roger Hunt for their time for this episode.

Footage supplied courtesy of Seven Network. All rights reserved. ©

Your stories

If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – or if you’ve had an experience with Voluntary Assisted Dying, we would love to hear from you. Tell your story here.

Subscribe via iTunes or your favourite podcast app.

#betteroffdeadpod

Transcript 

Download a transcript of this episode in PDF format. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In September 2020, as Tasmania’s Upper House prepared to debate an Assisted Dying bill, an article appeared on the online publication Mercatornet. Above a picture showing a graph of a flatlining heartbeat superimposed over an elderly hand was a headline in big, bold letters:

‘Grandma took her life yesterday. Her doctors helped her.’

The article described a lonely, elderly woman, seemingly abandoned by her family in a Melbourne nursing home during COVID, encouraged by her doctors to end her life using Victoria’s Assisted Dying law.

Photo: the image used by Mercatornet

Within days, it was being promoted by religious groups and The Australian Family Association as a warning to MPs about why they should vote down the Tasmanian bill. 

In this episode, we reveal the truth behind that story. Who was Grandma? Had her family really abandoned her? Was her decision to die her own, or was she encouraged?  

And what was it that connected the crusading author and the website that gave her story a global platform?

‘Just to get out of bed, you could tell she was in pain... she was really struggling. My brother said, ‘God, if Mum could have that medicine tomorrow, she would take it.’ Everybody was understanding because we all knew what she'd been through and didn't want her to go through that again.

‘Ruth’s’ daughter ‘Jane’ For more

• Visit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.au
• Audio: Neil Mitchell clashes with former Catholic priest over protest outside Peter Mac Cancer Centre – 3AW Newstalk, 11 April 2019
• Video: Fatal Fraud: A case study of tactics employed against evidence-based public policy initiatives – Go Gentle Australia, August 2019
• Article: Code of Ethical Standards for Catholic Health and Aged Care Service in Australia – Catholic Health Australia, June 2001
• Medical and Biblical Response to Euthanasia -- Dr Megan Best and Dr Andrew Sloane – Christian Medical and Dental fellowship of Australia, 2019

In this episode 

In order of appearance: 

Neil Mitchell, Eugene Ahern, ‘Bronwyn’, ‘Jane’, Tom Kenyon, Helen Lord, Leon Compton, Megan Best, Andrew Sloane, Tom Keneally, Stephen Parnis, Roger Hunt, Greg Mewett, Molly Carlile

Credits

Better Off Dead season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia 

Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia)
Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre)
Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia)
Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta, with assistance from Adam Rothwell
Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre)

Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia) 
Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media)
Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre) 
Episode Artwork: Megan Herbert
Transcript: Alice Boyle
Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre)
Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’ written and performed by Jordan Laser
Music: Brendan John Warner, James Domeyko, Simon Kindt, Michael Cusack

Special thanks to interviewees ‘Jane’ and her family and Thomas Keneally for their time for this episode.

Footage supplied courtesy of Seven Network. All rights reserved. ©

Listen to Better Off Dead season one here, subscribe in iTunes, or via your favourite podcast app.

#BetterOffDeadpod

Your Stories

If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – or if you’ve had an experience with Voluntary Assisted Dying, we would love to hear from you. Tell your story here.

Transcript

Download a transcript of this episode in PDF format. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The key word in Victoria’s voluntary assisted dying law is the first one: ‘voluntary’. By law, any doctor, nurse, or other health professional who conscientiously objects can choose not to participate in a person’s request for voluntary assisted dying.

But how does an institution balance its employees legal right to conscientiously object with its obligation to care for its patients?

Colin M, champion swimmer. “They were just playing in the waves. And he got dumped in one of those freak accidents and he knew straight away that he'd had a catastrophic injury.” -- Photo: Supplied

In this episode, we meet Colin, a former champion swimmer and  professor of philosophy who is dying and who has applied for the legal right to end his own life. Colin lives by the ancient Roman philosophy of Stoicism. This is what the Stoic Marcus Aurelius had to say about death: ‘Accept death in a cheerful spirit, as nothing but the dissolution of the elements from which each living thing is composed’. For a Stoic, it is good to “choose to die well while you can”.

Colin is living in a Catholic nursing home. They have a very different philosophy about death and dying. To a staunch Catholic, choosing to end your life early is to “to take the place of God in deciding the moment of death”.

What happens when these two ancient philosophies meet in one Melbourne nursing home?

And when does ‘conscientious objection’ become ‘conscientious obstruction’?

Sister Debra, niece Gabrielle, and nephew Elliot with Colin. “One of the most honourable people I think I've ever met.”-- Photo: Supplied

“I don't understand how people can think that that's a good or an ethical thing to do to someone, like physically and emotionally to put people through that suffering”

Colin’s sister, Debra

Stoic Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius: ““Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one” -- Photo: Shutterstock

For more

• Visit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.au

• Letter to Mercy Health, Go Gentle Australia, 15 January 2021

• Response from Mercy Health, 7 February 2021

• Article: ‘George Pell, Our Man in Rome’, – The Good Weekend Magazine, 26 February 2019

• Article: ‘Stoicism in a time of pandemic: how Marcus Aurelius can help’ – The Guardian 25 April 2020

In this episode (in order of appearance):
Deb M, Andrea Bendrups, Elliot D, John Stanton, Mark Coleridge, Peter Lange

Credits

Better Off Dead is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia.

Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia)
Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre)
Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia)
Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta, with assistance from Adam Rothwell
Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre)

Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia) 
Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media)
Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre) 
Episode Artwork: Megan Herbert
Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre)
Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser
Music: James Domeyko, Aaron Gleeson 

Special thanks to the family and medical carers of Colin M for their time for this episode.

Your stories

If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – or if you’ve had an experience with Voluntary Assisted Dying, we would love to hear from you. Tell your story here.

Subscribe in iTunes, or your favourite podcast app. #betteroffdeadpod

Transcript 

Download a transcript of this episode in PDF format.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

There are many firsts in Betty King’s life. First female prosecutor for the state of Victoria. First female prosecutor for the Commonwealth of Australia. First female silk in Victoria. Now another – first Chair of Victoria’s Voluntary Assisted Dying Review Board.

Reporting to parliament, the Board oversees the processes of the law with its 68 safeguards, ensuring that doctors adhere to the rules, and that the people seeking assistance to die are competent and not being coerced.

Of all the doubts raised by MPs in the parliamentary debate about assisted dying, none was more frequent than the fear that a vulnerable person may be coerced to their death by heartless relatives through the VAD law. 

In this episode, we meet Betty – the “Guardian of the Safeguards’ – as well as doctors, palliative care physicians, pharmacists, VAD Care Navigators, and families of those who have been through the process to find out whether any of those fears have turned out to be true.

And we discover there is another, unwritten safeguard:  To take this path, you have to have enormous courage.

The Hon. Betty King QC, Chair of the Voluntary Assisted Dying Review Board speaking on the panel at the Wheeler Centre's Last Words: Voluntary Assisted Dying event - Photo: Tiffany Garvie

 

“It's not an easy process. But neither it should be. This is the ending of a life. And it ought to be treated in a serious manner. Because it's a serious thing to do.”

Betty King Know More

• Visit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.au
• Article: ‘Interview with Justice Betty King’ Young Lawyers Journal, Law Institute of Victoria, 2010
• Article: ‘King’s court: A one-off judge calls time’ – The Age, 9 July 2015
• Article and interview: ‘Twelve months of voluntary assisted dying in Victoria’ – The Conversation Hour, ABC Radio National, 15 June 2020
• Article: 'We're on the right side of history': Victoria’s assisted dying laws come into effect for terminally ill – The Age, 19 June 2019

In this episode (in order of appearance):

Betty King, Stephen Parnis, John Daffy, John Stanton, Nola Maxfield, David Speakman, Susan D, Melanie D, Katie Harley, Andrea Bendrups, Greg Mewett, Nick Carr, Phillip Parente, Cameron McLaren, Peter Lange, Kristin Cornell, Lisa Hogg, Reg Jebb, Jean Caliste, Nicole Robertson, Jon Faine, Jacqui Hicks, Michael Dooley, Molly Carlile

Credits

Better Off Dead is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia.

Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia)
Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre)
Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia)
Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta, with assistance from Adam Rothwell
Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre)

Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia) 
Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media)
Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre) 
Episode Artwork: Megan Herbert
Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre)
Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser
Music: Aaron Gleeson, Martin Peralta

Special thanks to our interviewee Betty King for her time for this episode.

Your stories

If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – or if you’ve had an experience with Voluntary Assisted Dying, we would love to hear from you. Tell your story here.

Subscribe in iTunes, or your favourite podcast app. #betteroffdeadpod

Transcript

Download a transcript of this episode in PDF format.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Imagine turning up to work one day to discover flyers outside your office accusing you of being a ‘death peddler’ and an ‘Uber service for poison’.

Professor Michael Dooley runs Victoria’s Statewide Pharmacy Service. When voluntary assisted dying became legal it was his job, and that of his team, to come up with medication that would effectively and painlessly end a terminally ill person’s life - and also a way to safely get it to them.

Statewide pharmacists Prof Michael Dooley (right) and David Seymour. “We've told them very, very clearly that if they take that medication, it will kill them. Saying that the first time to someone sitting two feet in front of you is probably the hardest part.” - Photo: Juliet Lamont

Michael and his team are the last step – and the final safeguard – in the long legal process a dying person has to go through to access the medication.

What is it like to walk into someone’s home to give them a draught designed to end their life? Who do they meet and what do they hear? And what happens if, at this very last step, they have to tell someone, ‘I’m sorry, but no.’?

“We find leaving very, very difficult. Because you have to say goodbye... and we've all talked about how we do it… And there's no easy way and we all have our own little way. You know, it's not a normal goodbye.”

Professor Michael Dooley

Nicole Robertson and Jacqui Hicks, with a photo of their mum Kerry Roberston. - Photo: Kristian Silva, ABC Melbourne

The Locked Box. - Photo: Supplied

Know More

• Visit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.au
• Article: ‘Lethal medication sourced for Victoria’s voluntary euthanasia scheme’ – The Age, 4 January 2019
• Article: ‘Bendigo woman becomes first to use Victoria's Voluntary Assisted Dying law’ -- Go Gentle Australia, 4 August 2019
• Audio: ‘Daughters' emotional tribute to Kerry Robertson, Victoria's first person to use voluntary euthanasia laws’ – ABC Melbourne Mornings with Jon Faine, 5 August 2019
• Article: ‘Voluntary euthanasia to begin in Victoria as assisted dying laws take effect this week’ – ABC News, 16 June 2019

In this episode (in order of appearance):

Kristin Cornell, Michael Dooley, Nicole Robertson, Debra M, Kristin Cornell, Jacqui Hicks, Jon Faine, Jean Caliste, Katie Harley, Liz Le Noble, Jason McKey

Credits

Better Off Dead is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia.

Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia)
Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre)
Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia)
Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta, with assistance from Adam Rothwell
Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre)

Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia)
Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media)
Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre)
Episode Artwork: Megan Herbert
Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre)
Music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser
Music: Jon Murphy, Aaron Gleeson, Brendon John Warner, Simon Kindt

Special thanks to our interviewee Michael Dooley for his time for this episode.

Footage supplied courtesy of Seven Network. All rights reserved. ©

Your stories

If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – or if you’ve had an experience with Voluntary Assisted Dying, we would love to hear from you.  Tell your story here.

Subscribe in iTunes, or your favourite podcast app.

#betteroffdeadpod

Transcript

Download a transcript of this episode in PDF format. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

So much was said during Victoria’s parliamentary debate about the people who would choose voluntary assisted dying, were it to be made legal.

That they could not possibly know their own minds.

“I do not believe that an individual who is facing such enormous pressure and stress is capable of making a decision to end their own life.”

Nat Suleyman, MP

That the burden of possessing life-ending medication would be too much for them.

“If I was in that situation, I would probably think about it every hour — ‘Will I take it now? Will I take it tomorrow? Will I take it after I’ve watched my favourite TV show?”

Luke O’Sullivan, MLC

That they would be pushed into ending their lives by hard-hearted relatives.

“Sometimes the relatives might … be wanting to encourage the person to take their medicine — take their poison, I should say.”

Neil Angus, MP

Or that they should never even need to make such a choice, because palliative care could alleviate all their pain and suffering.

“Advances in palliative care medicine have been prodigious, to the point where well-managed cases under best practice palliative care can eliminate physical pain and discomfort.”

Robert Clark, MP

Why don’t we just let these people speak for themselves?

Meet Ron Poole, Fiona McClure, and Peter Jones, three Victorians from very different backgrounds in the final stages of a terminal illness and facing potentially brutal deaths.

Ron Poole, 77 and his beloved dog Bobby. “ The thing that got me was people saying how brave I am! I’m not being brave. Bravery doesn’t come into it. ” - Photo: Juliet Lamont

Peter ‘Frankie’ Jones. “My daughter’s going to lose someone she loves very much, as I am. That’s my biggest fear...” - Photo: Juliet Lamont

Each has exhausted treatment options and been offered expert palliative care. Each has chosen to complete the VAD assessment and has in their possession life-ending medication that they can choose to take – or not – when the time is right.

Buoyed by the peace of mind of knowing they have an option to end their suffering if it becomes too great, all are determined to live what remains of their life to the full and say their goodbyes in the best way they know how.

Fiona McClure, 67 and her partner Wim Wansink: “I've been very impressed with the whole process. Everyone has been kind, knowledgeable, respectful, able to discuss the options. There was no sense of urgency.” - Photo: Juliet Lamont

“I'd like to go out in a pretty dress with a pretty pink lipstick, and having just had a latte with a girlfriend. And I’m still looking forward to that glass of champagne after I take the draught. French champagne.”

Fiona McClure, metastatic stomach cancer Know More

• Visit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.au
• Website: Doctors For Assisted Dying Choice, respecting rational patient end-of-life choices
• Article: ‘Reasons for Requesting Physician-Assisted Suicide’ -- Angela Morrow RN, VeryWellhealth, 23 March 2020
• E-book: ‘Beyond Pain: Why more resources for palliative care alone will not address the need for Voluntary Assisted Dying’ - Go Gentle Australia, Nov 2019

In this episode (in order of appearance): Ron Poole,  Fiona McClure, Wim Wansink, Peter Jones

 

Better Off Dead season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia 

Learn more about  Go Gentle Australia’s work

Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia)
Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre)
Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia)
Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta
Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre)

Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia) 
Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media)
Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre) 
Episode Transcript: Alice Boyle 
Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre)
Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser
Episode Artwork: Megan Herbert

Music: James Domeyko, Aaron Gleeson, Alex Gow, Martin Peralta

Special thanks to our interviewees Ron Poole, Fiona McClure, Wim Wansink and Peter Jones for giving up their precious time for these interviews. Since recording this episode, Peter and Ron have died. Our thoughts are with their loved ones.

Listen to Better Off Dead season one here, and subscribe in iTunes, or follow via your favourite podcast app.

#BetterOffDeadpod

Your stories

If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here.

Transcript

Download a transcript of this episode in PDF format. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.