Something I am so grateful for is the leadership experience I received growing up in the church. From a young age, I got involved in worship teams. I led small groups. I developed skills. I was put on stages I had no business being on. Church wasn’t just a weekly service we attended. It was a leadership incubator.

L. Michelle Smith has written a new book called Call And Response: 10 Leadership Lessons From the Black Church. In it she discusses how the Black Church has historically developed high level business leaders. The book borrows from culture, neuroscience, and positive psychology to describe the power of the Black Church and why it has produced so many high level leaders .

Whether you’ve grown up in the Black Church or have never even visited, we all have something to learn here.

Because if the church stops developing leaders in favor of merely hiring out a professional, performative workforce, we could be in some trouble.

This is David Santistevan. You can reach me anytime at [email protected] As always, thank you for listening.

This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on.

As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services.

But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature?

Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it!

No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another.

The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes!

So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation.

All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting!

The post #384: Leadership Lessons For All From The History Of The Black Church with L. Michelle Smith appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

There’s an argument that has gone around for decades and it revolves around the idea of how much worship music do we need? Do we have enough?

On the one hand, yes, we have more worship music than we’ll ever be able to use in our Sunday morning services. And there’s also the argument that worship music is the most lucrative music in Christian music. I don’t think that can be debated.

So while there are business and industry incentives to make worship music that will always exist at the intersection of Christianity and industry, what is the biblical perspective?

What does the Bible teach us about singing, songwriting, and corporate worship?

Trip Lee is a hip hop artist, a preacher, a rapper, an author…and he’s released a worship album.

I appreciate Trip and his commitment to God’s Word.

We talk about the power of worship music, why we need more cultural expressions of it, and how worship music should be viewed as a tool of discipleship. We also talk about culture and Christianity, racial tension, and how we should think about the division in the church right now.

Trip is awesome and this conversation was a joy.

This is David Santistevan and you can reach me anytime at [email protected]. As always thank you for listening.

This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on.

As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services.

But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature?

Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it!

No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another.

The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes!

So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation.

All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting!

The post #383: Making Worship Music That Doesn’t Sound Like Worship Music with Trip Lee appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

If you’re a worship leader, you plan services. It comes with the territory. It’s part of the job. Most of the time, that comes down to picking songs.

But what are we missing in our churches when service planning, programming, and worship leading is reduced to merely picking songs?

W. David O. Taylor is Associate Professor of Theology & Culture at Fuller Theological Seminary as well as the director of various initiatives in worship, theology and the arts. He teaches courses in systematic theology, art and worship, art and theology, art and beauty, spiritual formation through the psalms, and theology and science fiction. He is the author of the books Glimpses of The New Creation, Prayers for the Pilgrimage, A Body of Praise, Open & Unafraid, as well as the upcoming book To Set the World Aflame: How Artists Bear Witness to the Fullness of God’s Creation.

David is a deep well of wisdom when it comes to worship and the arts. What I love about this conversation is he helps us see more expansive view of what worship is and can be in the church. 

We discuss why artists are necessary and how they help us see more of God. The value of silence in our gatherings. The kinds of songs we need to be singing today. Why the predominant worship model today isn’t wrong, but inadequate.

You can reach me anytime at [email protected]. Thank you for listening.

This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on.

As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services.

But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature?

Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it!

No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another.

The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes!

So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation.

All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting!

The post #382: Uncommon & Creative Ways to Reimagine Your Worship Services with W. David O. Taylor appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

We are living in interesting times if you’re a Christian in America. Open social media for a second on any given day and you can see outrage on one side and celebration on the other for those who follow Jesus.

How are we supposed to navigate times like these?

What are we supposed to believe? How are we supposed to think? What should followers of Jesus do in times like this?

I don’t have all the answers, but I appreciate bold voices who help us make sense of the chaos. One of those voices is Brittany Packnett Cunningham.

Brittany is an activist, an educator, a writer, and a leader who spends her time at the intersection of culture, justice, and policy. She doesn’t just live in the realm of lofty ideas, but is actively working to make life better for the most vulnerable in society. Brittany is also a Christian.

In this conversation we talk about her faith journey. We share stories of my journey growing up in white evangelicalism and her first encounter with white evangelicalism.

We talk about what it means to follow Jesus today. How our faith should influence our voting and our politics. No matter what side of the political spectrum you are on, Brittany has something to teach us if we’re willing to listen. 

This is David Santistevan and you can reach me anytime with questions, guest recommendations, complaints, or criticisms at [email protected]

As always, thank you so much for listening.

This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on.

As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services.

But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature?

Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it!

No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another.

The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes!

So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation.

All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting!

The post #381: Evangelicalism, Justice Work, And Red Letter Christianity with Brittany Packnett Cunningham appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

This is an episode for the ministry underdog. There are some unwritten, unhelpful rules about worship ministry and Christian music that we need to say out loud. You’re too old. Your voice isn’t strong enough. You’re too overweight. Your style isn’t what we’re going for. You can’t be the face of the ministry.

Of course, we don’t say these things out loud, most of the time. But it appears that too often our modus operandi is to be attractive and impressive, beautiful. How are we going to sell the most records? Who is going to draw people to our church? The longer we operate with these cultural values, the more we sideline great leaders and harm them in the process. I’m not advocating anyone could be a worship leader. Obviously, there are skill standards. But how far is too far when it comes to talent, image, beauty, and age? At what point have we abandoned kingdom values for profit, power, and influence?

Calvin Nowell is my guest today. Calvin is a songwriter, worship leader, and singer who has sung with many of the top names in Christian Music. Calvin also leads a diverse music collective called Aware Worship that is bringing awareness to the people side of ministry.

This is vulnerable conversation. We talk about the dark sides of the industry, stigma in ministry, supporting the underdog, and looking for Jesus on the margins. Tears were shed. The presence of God was felt. Trust me, you will be encouraged.

My name is David Santistevan. As always, thanks for listening. You can reach me anytime at [email protected].

This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on.

As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services.

But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature?

Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it!

No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another.

The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes!

So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation.

All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting!

The post #380: Ministry For The Down & Out, The Discarded, And The Underdog with Calvin Nowell appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

It’s becoming almost a tradition that when I need to talk about something really difficult, I invite David Gate on the Podcast. David is a former worship leader, recording artist turned author who has a keen eye about what is happening in the world. And he’s not afraid to tell it like it is. David wrote an article recently called “The Soundtrack For American Fascism is Worship Music” – I know, pretty intense. But also not entirely hard to believe, if you’re paying attention.

In this conversation we talk about it – how worship music can be co-opted to serve anti-Christian political agendas. How easy it is for our Christianity to become enmeshed with our politics to the point where we can’t tell where one begins and the other ends. We look historically at how Hitler co-opted the music of Wagner to serve his political aims. How worship music can be manipulative in healthy and unhealthy ways. We talk about choosing songs and what to do if you’re tired of mainstream, popular worship music. The conversation ends with some music recommendations and thoughts on David’s creative process.

This is a difficult chat, but a great one. You’ll be uncomfortable frequently. You may disagree some. But I guarantee it will challenge your thinking and improve your ministry life if you allow it.

This is David Santistevan. You can email me any time at [email protected]. As always, thanks for listening.

This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on.

As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services.

But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature?

Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it!

No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another.

The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes!

So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation.

All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting!

The post #379: When Worship Gets Political with David Gate appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

What is the future of worship leading? How important are worship leaders and how will that role continue to develop in the future? No one really knows, but it’s worth reflecting on. My guest today is Martha Munizzi – veteran gospel artist, songwriter, worship leader and co-pastor at epic life church in Orlando. This is an interesting conversation because Martha has the perspective of a worship leader and a pastor.

We talk about the tension of excellent worship experiences as it relates to church growth and simple congregational worship where the voice of the people take center stage. Practical ways to do simple worship without losing excellence. We talk about the beauty of gospel music and where it’s headed. How to empower young worship leaders and what the older generation can learn from them. We also hear the story of how Martha brilliantly forced her way onto my podcast. It’s kind of hilarious.

This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on.

As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services.

But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature?

Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it!

No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another.

The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes!

So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation.

All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting!

The post #378: Why It’s OK To Simplify Our Worship Experiences with Martha Munizzi appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Justice – when you hear that word what do you think of? The word carries some baggage in the church today and has become highly politicized. Too much justice talk and you can be dismissed as Marxist, woke, or a proponent of the “unbiblical” social justice gospel. But if you can remove yourself from cultural baggage, read the Bible with fresh eyes, and look at the life of Jesus, you see justice everywhere. Justice was central to the life and mission of Jesus. And it should be to his followers as well.

One of the best books I’ve read on the topic is a new book by Joash Thomas called The Justice of Jesus: Reimagining Your Church’s Life Together to Pursue Liberation And Wholeness.

Talking about justice shouldn’t cause us to draw tighter partisan political lines. It should cause us – as Joash says – to be politically agnostic, except on behalf of our marginalized neighbors. 

This is an eye-opening conversation. He talk about how colonization has shaped the Western church to resist justice. Why we need more teaching on justice and not less. Why it’s important to diversity our theological influences. And some practical ways any local church can pursue justice.

Joash is a kind soul with a deep understanding of justice and Christianity in the global south and what we can learn in the west…from followers of Jesus all over the world. 

This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on.

As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services.

But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature?

Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it!

No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another.

The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes!

So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation.

All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting!

The post #377: How The Western Church Has Been Shaped To Resist Justice (And What We Can Do About It) with Joash P. Thomas appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

One of my goals with this podcast is not simply to talk about the spiritual but also the systemic. One could argue that the two are actually intertwined. Can Christian spirituality thrive in the midst of a toxic system? Is it possible to be formed opposite the ways of Jesus while using the name of Jesus? These are important questions to wrestle with and hold up to cultural Christianity today. We must talk about the cultural systems we are shaped by. That’s not divisive or an attack of the enemy. The truth always shines a light. And the truth will always lead us to greater unity, even if some systems we’ve held dear need to come down.

Part of being a faithful follower of Jesus in the world is paying attention to what is of God and what is not. And that’s why I wanted to have a conversation with my friend Phillip Joubert. Phillip is an artist with Common Hymnal, one of my favorite Christian artist collectives out there right now. They are making music that is a refreshing counterpoint to popular Christian music today. It’s Jesus AND justice. It’s praise AND protest. It’s worship music that is rooted in the goodness of God but with a grip on the reality of our world. Phillip is a truth teller. A prophet, you might say. The voice of someone who spots trends and speaks with moral clarity and biblical conviction.

This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on.

As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services.

But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature?

Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it!

No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another.

The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes!

So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation.

All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting!

The post #376: An Honest Look At The Systems That Shape The Church In America with Phillip Joubert appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on.

As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services.

But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature?

Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it!

No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another.

The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes!

So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation.

All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting!

The post #375: Music & Ministry After Hillsong With Matt Crocker appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.