Cory Klippsten is the CEO of Swan Bitcoin and has a long history in both traditional finance and the Bitcoin space. In this two-part episode, he talks about why Bitcoin is winning and how the culture around it has changed.

Karl Kreder, better known as Dr. K, is best known in the space for researching the use of merged-mined subnets to scale Proof of Work in 2018 – a concept which led to the launch of the Quai Network, which introduced the Proof of Entropy Minima (PoEM) consensus for high transaction throughput within a decentralized environment.

Today, we talk about his views on Bitcoin, why Proof of Work is still relevant in a world that's converging towards the more convenient Proof of Stake, and how the Quai Network works.

Time stamps:

00:00 Intro & Welcome

00:03:00 Discussion Length Challenge

00:04:00 Dr. K's Bitcoin Background

00:06:00 Wallet Security & Lattice1

00:08:00 Scaling PoW Networks

00:11:00 PoW vs PoS Debate

00:13:00 Fair Launch & Distribution Issues

00:15:00 Quai Launch & Hash Rate

00:17:00 GPU Mining & ProgPow

00:20:00 ASIC Manufacturers

00:23:00 NiceHash & AI Integration

00:26:00 Quai Network Inspiration

00:29:00 Electronic Cash Necessity

00:32:00 Quai Scale to Replace Visa

00:34:00 Decentralization & No Roadmap

00:38:00 LayerTwo Labs Ad & DriveChains

00:40:00 Hierarchy for Validation

00:42:00 Payment Platforms Limits

00:44:00 Scale Beyond Current L1s

00:46:00 Monetary History & Gold

00:50:00 Self-Custody Challenges

00:52:00 Kaspa Differences & DAG

00:54:00 Bitcoin Love & Improvements

00:56:00 BSV Technical Limits

00:58:00 Consensus as Limit

01:00:00 Wolfram Physics Project

01:02:00 Scale Analogy & Consensus

01:04:00 Quai Node Hardware

01:06:00 Systemically Important Nodes

01:08:00 Bitcoin Privacy Issues

01:11:00 CoinJoin & Deniability

01:13:00 Good vs Bad Nodes

01:15:00 Economic Surplus Incentives

01:16:00 Bitcoin.com News Ad

01:19:00 Government as Enemy

01:21:00 Digital Paths & Freedom

01:23:00 Bitcoin as Linux & Tribalism

01:25:00 Legit Coins Assessment

01:26:00 EVM Compatibility Reasons

01:34:00 Why Choose EVM

01:35:00 Programming Languages

01:37:00 Simplicity Language

01:38:00 EVM as Standard

01:40:00 Bitcoin Changes Proposal

01:42:00 Quai Mainnet Visualization

01:45:00 Sharding Coordination

01:46:00 PoEM Consensus Mechanism

01:49:00 Chain Work & Withholding

01:52:00 Work Shares Explained

01:54:00 Miner Shard Choice & Balance

01:57:00 Privacy in Sharding

01:59:00 Settlement Time Trade-Off

02:00:00 Ethereum Usage Stats

02:03:00 Qi Token & Energy Dollar

02:12:00 Quai Deflationary Supply

02:16:00 Qi Privacy Properties

02:24:00 Node Incentives & Markets

02:27:00 Kipper Tipping App

02:31:00 Blip Pay Wallet Demo

02:40:00 EVM Big Deal

02:43:00 Quai Launch Reception

02:47:00 Industry Reviews

02:49:00 PoW Sampling Theory

03:02:00 Kipper Demo

03:07:00 Multiplatform Kipper

03:12:00 Qi Denominations & Pruning

03:14:00 Messaging via Qi

03:15:00 PWAs Advantages

03:19:00 Neo PoW Explained

03:21:00 Data Provider Agnostic

03:23:00 Transaction Propagation

03:26:00 Global TPS Demand

03:28:00 Interchange Integration

03:31:00 Direct Crypto POS

03:33:00 Node Requirements in Sharding

03:35:00 Kaspa Attention Reasons

03:38:00 ASIC Future in Quai

03:41:00 Trilemma & Tetralemma

03:43:00 Hierarchy Trade-Offs

03:47:00 Security Notes

03:50:00 Resource Markets

03:52:00 Quantum Resistance

03:57:00 Work Shares Uses

04:00:00 Decentralized Pools (Dools)

04:02:00 Quai Simplicity

04:07:00 Tree Chains Comparison

04:09:00 Homogeneous Security

04:10:00 Vitalik Story

04:18:00 Qi Details

04:24:00 Dool Mechanics

04:27:00 Work Shares Info

04:29:00 2000 Viewers Milestone

04:29:00 Magic Word

04:31:00 Monero Reorgs & Qubic

04:34:00 Transaction Censorship

04:37:00 Red Balloon Problem

04:38:00 Selfish Mining

04:42:00 Liquidity Arc

04:44:00 Culture Challenge

04:46:00 Regional Trends

04:48:00 State Bloat vs Consensus

04:51:00 Storage Scaling

04:54:00 Propagation Time

04:56:00 400ms Lower Bound

04:58:00 Interplanetary Transactions

05:00:00 Reference Resolution

05:05:00 Propagation & Consensus

05:07:00 Independent Samples

05:08:00 Price Pump

05:10:00 Ideology & Tech

05:11:00 Bitcoin Scaling Limits

05:12:00 Gold as PoW

05:14:00 Self-Custody

05:17:00 Yield & MSTR

05:20:00 Pandemic Inflation

05:22:00 Dollar Future

05:24:00 Bitcoin Heterodoxy

05:25:00 Maximalism

05:29:00 Cult Dynamics

05:30:00 Mises & Rothbard

05:32:00 Roger Ver

05:36:00 Saylor Infiltration

05:37:00 Memes & Philosophies

05:38:00 Leader Emergence

05:39:00 CIA Speculation

05:40:00 Who is Satoshi?

05:41:00 Code Quality

05:42:00 Burning Keys

05:43:00 Martti Malmi Insights

05:44:00 Satoshi Is Not NSA

05:45:00 21m Is Arbitrary

05:46:00 Early Changes

05:47:00 Block Size Temp

05:48:00 Economics Assumptions

05:49:00 Satoshi Scaling

05:52:00 Tech Optimism

05:53:00 Industry Honesty

05:56:00 Sharding Complexity

05:57:00 PoW Scalability

05:58:00 Consensus Efficiency

05:59:00 Sharding Compat

06:00:00 Memes as Rhetoric

06:02:00 Hoskinson Cult

06:03:00 Fake Engagement

06:04:00 Steam Adoption

06:07:00 Overstock & Patrick Byrne

06:10:00 Design Philosophy

06:11:00 Frustrated Devs

06:12:00 Talent Exodus

06:14:00 Follow Dr. K

06:15:00 Message to Yonatan

06:16:00 Quai vs Kaspa

06:17:00 Closing Remarks

Sergej Kotliar is the CEO of Bitrefill, while Matt Ahlborg recently created PPQ.AI to enable millions of users to experience LLMs without expensive subscriptions. But how are bitcoin payments doing? In this episode, they present their latest stats. Time stamps: 00:00:48 – Introducing Sergej Kotliar and Matt Aalborg

00:02:20 – Bitrefill’s Lightning Network Experience & Payment Trends

00:04:13 – Shift from Bitcoin Maximalism to Multi-Chain Usage

00:05:47 – Tron, Ethereum, and Payment Method Comparisons

00:10:04 – Defining Post-Maximalism

00:11:08 – Changing Morality and Ideology in Bitcoin

00:13:12 – Proof of Reserves & Bitcoin Company Transparency

00:14:15 – Bitrefill’s Payment Method Rankings

00:18:00 – Payment Method Percentages & Dashboard Usage

00:20:21 – Decline in On-Chain Bitcoin Payments

00:24:46 – Popular Wallets for Bitrefill Purchases

00:27:53 – Bitrefill’s Business Growth & Marketing

00:29:04 – Adoption Pace & Decentralization Tradeoffs

00:31:35 – Centralized vs. Decentralized Chains & Security

00:33:51 – Stablecoins’ Role in Crypto Payments

00:35:25 – Bitcoin as Store of Value vs. Stablecoins as Medium of Exchange

00:36:26 – American Influence & “Never Spend Your Bitcoin” Narrative

00:38:47 – Bitcoin Spending Trends & Storage Habits

00:43:34 – Crypto Usage Beyond Bitcoin & Banking Systems

00:44:24 – Bitrefill’s Current Offerings & eSIM Growth

00:47:50 – Integration with Traditional Payment Networks

00:49:29 – Loss of libertarian ethos and Bitcoin community fragmentation.

00:51:41 – Support for Privacy Coins & Chain Selection

00:57:36 – Monero Usage on PPQ.AI & Regulatory Perceptions

01:00:01 – Liquid Bitcoin & Its Limited Adoption

01:05:16 – NFTs, Gambling, and Network Effects in Crypto

01:07:14 – Changing Narratives & Post-Rationalization

01:09:34 – Bitcoin’s Utopian Vision & Real-World Challenges

01:13:06 – Decentralization’s Gradual Growth & VPN Analogy

01:17:18 – PPQ AI: Naming, Features, and Privacy

01:22:03 – AI Model Variety & User Experience on PPQ AI

01:25:02 – Image & Video Generation with AI

01:27:22 – AI’s Impact on Employment & Content Creation

01:29:42 – AI, Automation, and Crypto Payments for Robots

01:34:02 – How PPQ.AI Handles User Data & Privacy

01:37:22 – Memory Features & User Profiling in AI

01:39:19 – Bitrefill’s Vision for the Future

01:40:29 – PPQ.AI’s Business Model & Growth

01:44:18 – PPQ.AI Model Access, Subscriptions, and Competitors

01:52:03 – PPQ.AI’s Elevator Pitch & Referral Program

Simplicity, a scripting language so simple that it can fit on a t-shirt, has finally launched on Liquid after a decade of development. Andrew Poelstra, who works as director of research at Blockstream, explains how it works & why it's good for Bitcoin.

Time stamps:

(00:00:50) Introducing Andrew Poelstra

(00:01:45) Simplicity: Now Live on Liquid

(00:02:12) Elements and Liquid’s Technical Evolution

(00:03:09) Is Simplicity a Response to Solidity?

(00:05:40) Simplicity’s Programming Model & Rust Inspiration

(00:08:04) Demo Applications and Simplicity Playground

(00:10:03) Why Not Stick with Bitcoin Script?

(00:11:48) Bitcoin Script’s Limitations and Quirks

(00:19:14) Simplicity’s Capabilities: Computation & Covenants

(00:22:26) Formal Verification and Multi-Language Implementations

(00:25:21) Machine-Checkable Proofs and Contract Safety

(00:29:07) Covenants, OP_CAT, and Script Extension Fears

(00:33:26) Simplicity as a Future Script Extension Path

(00:34:31) Ethereum’s Design Mistakes & Simplicity’s Approach

(00:53:00) Simplicity’s Lateness and Ethereum’s Rise

(01:01:12) Simplicity’s Usability and Adoption Challenges

(01:04:18) Potential Use Cases for Simplicity: Vaults, Business Logic, Quantum Signatures

(01:08:06) Wallets and Simplicity Integration

(01:16:30) Simplicity vs. Soft Forks for New Opcodes

(01:19:01) Jets: Optimizing Simplicity with Native Code

(01:22:44) Collider Script and High-Cost Emulation

(01:24:44) Resource Limits and Transaction Size

(01:29:34) Non-Scammy, Technologically Interesting Altcoins: Monero, Zcash, Grin, and Sia

(01:33:14) Where to Learn More About Simplicity

Alephium is one of the most interesting Proof of Work projects, which aims to build secure smart contracts & fast DeFi on a mineable base layer which minimizes electricity consumption. Maud Bannwart & Cheng Wang explain how all of this works.

Time stamps:

00:00:53 – Introducing Cheng & Maud

00:02:06 – Alephium's Origins & Motivation

Cheng explains the technical challenge of blockchain scalability and the project's evolution from sharding to DeFi.

00:04:36 – Choosing UTXO vs. Account Model

Why Alephium uses the UTXO model for assets and account model for application state, combining both for scalability.

00:09:50 – Privacy and UTXO Model

Advantages of UTXO for privacy and scalability, and how it enables advanced privacy features.

00:11:03 – Blockchain Scalability & Parallelization

Cheng details Alephium’s approach to scaling via parallel blockchains, sharding, and optimizing block times.

00:14:41 – Decentralization vs. Shard Coordination

Balancing decentralization and coordination in sharded blockchains, and how Alephium’s block flow algorithm works.

00:17:31 – DAG Structure Explanation

Explanation of DAG (Directed Acyclic Graph) and its benefits for transaction management and scalability.

00:19:44 – Shard Synchronization & Security

Handling shard failures, synchronization, and ensuring security with proof of work and honest hashrate.

00:21:09 – Block Time, Decentralization & Node Requirements

Trade-offs of faster block times, decentralization, and hardware requirements for running Alephium nodes.

00:25:22 – Blockchain Pruning & Storage

Current state of blockchain storage, pruning, and why further optimization is not a priority.

00:27:13 – ASICs and Mining History

Arrival of ASIC miners, mining history, and the impact on the Alephium network.

00:29:33 – Taproot & Smart Contracting

Why Alephium chose taproot, its use for scripting, and differences from Ethereum’s approach.

00:33:05 – Proof of Work vs. Proof of Stake

Rationale for choosing proof of work, ASIC-friendliness, and the benefits for decentralization and security.

00:37:45 – Technical Advantages of Proof of Work

How proof of work simplifies sharding, increases performance, and reduces network complexity.

00:39:56 – DeFi on Proof of Work

Addressing claims that DeFi requires proof of stake, and Alephium’s block time and throughput.

00:42:09 – Value of Proof of Work & Community

Discussion on the value of proof of work, community importance, and Ethereum’s transition to proof of stake.

00:44:56 – Pre-mine & Project Funding

Explanation of Alephium’s pre-mine, funding model, and transparency in initial allocations.

00:50:41 – Transparency & Genesis Block

Details on public visibility of genesis allocations and proof of no hidden pre-mine.

00:54:11 – Proof of Less Work Mechanism

Introduction and explanation of "proof of less work," reducing energy use by combining proof of work and proof of burn.

01:00:16 – Environmental Criticism & Value Proposition

Addressing environmental concerns, mining’s evolving perception, and the necessity of cost in money creation.

01:04:01 – Alephium’s Unique Value & Comparison

Alephium’s unique features: smart contracts on proof of work, UTXO security, and differences from Cardano/Ethereum Classic.

01:07:39 – Developer Experience & EVM Compatibility

Ease of transitioning from EVM, Alephium’s developer-friendly environment, and challenges with industry standards.

01:14:11 – Alephium Virtual Machine & Language

Alephium’s programming language inspired by Rust, Scala, and Solidity, designed for security and ease of use.

01:19:04 – Ecosystem & DApps

Overview of existing DApps, third-party development, and ecosystem growth on Alephium.

01:22:16 – Killer App & Platform Potential

Discussion on the search for Alephium’s killer app and its potential as a generic platform.

01:23:37 – Danube Hard Fork & Optimizations

Faster blocks, better scalability, and user/developer experience improvements.

01:26:25 – Mining Accessibility & Hardware

Mining requirements, ASIC recommendations, and the end of GPU mining profitability.

01:29:10 – Hashrate Growth & NiceHash

01:31:56 – Price & Market Position

01:35:19 – Lessons for Bitcoin & Future-Proofing

01:38:56 – Tokenized Bitcoin & UTXO Benefits

01:43:25 – Privacy, Rollups, and Future Features

01:51:11 – Getting Started with Alephium

Wallets, documentation, and running a node.

01:53:08 – Upgrade Naming & Community

01:53:43 – Final Thoughts & Contact

Hunter Beast is the author of BIP 360: a proposal that seeks to provide quantum resistance to Bitcoin, to prevent powerful computer builders from brute forcing arbitrary addresses to steal the funds.

But is the quantum threat real? Does the number of qubits really make a difference when the quantum computer is general purpose? Shouldn't other industries outside of Bitcoin, especially governments and banks, be worried about the fragility of elliptic curve cryptography?

In this episode, we'll try to answer some of these questions and also refer to Hunter Beast's previous experience with building RGB for Bitcoin tokens.

–––––––––––––––––––––––––––

Time stamps:

01:08 - Introducing Hunter Beast

01:27 - BIP 360 and Quantum Resistance

Hunter Beast introduces BIP 360, aimed at making Bitcoin resistant to quantum computing threats, a hot topic due to predictions of advanced quantum computers potentially breaking ECDSA signatures.

02:19 - Defining Bitcoin's Quantum Threat

Quantum computing is institutional, not accessible to average Bitcoiners, making verification difficult. The threat is existential but not immediate, though warnings suggest proximity.

03:58 - U.S. Government Warnings

U.S. government and institutions are preparing for quantum resistance by 2030, urging upgrades to protect against potential cryptographic breaks.

05:53 - Consensus Challenges

Hard forks ensure UTXO migration but face consensus issues; soft forks are preferred, but coins must move to quantum-resistant addresses to avoid vulnerabilities.

06:38 - Bitcoin’s Quantum Vulnerabilities

Taproot, reused addresses, mempool-published data, and exposed public keys are vulnerable. ~90% of reused address coins are active, reducing concern, but Taproot needs upgrades.

09:41 - BIP 360 Solution for Taproot

BIP 360 focuses narrowly on fixing Taproot’s vulnerability to long-exposure attacks, enabling wallets to commit to multiple scripts, including quantum-resistant ones like SLHDSA.

13:07 - Signature Schemes

ECDSA is Bitcoin’s weak point. Lamport and Winternitz signatures are flawed (one-time use), but SLHDSA (using a hypertree of Winternitz signatures) allows secure address reuse.

17:10 - User Experience Impact

BIP 360 minimizes changes to user experience, offering opt-in quantum-resistant scripts. Wallets could include security dials, but defaults remain familiar.

20:14 - Transaction Size and Costs

Post-quantum signatures are larger (4-8k bytes), but address commitments are minimal (~34 bytes). Block size increases aren’t necessary; solutions like Bitzip could scale transactions.

22:27 – Sideshift.ai

23:17 - Drivechains and Layer Two Labs

Drivechains offer secure sidechain solutions, decentralizing custody and scaling Bitcoin. Testing is available on Signet, with Litecoin considering implementation.

29:48 - Bitcoin Ossification Debate

Ossification (resistance to change) vs. necessary upgrades debated. Quantum threats may force changes as Bitcoin secures more value, despite opposition.

36:36 - Conspiracy Theory Counter

Concerns about government-driven fear dismissed; BIP 360 is opt-in, only used if quantum threats emerge, preserving user choice.

54:26 - Quantum Computing Progress

IBM’s Condor has 1,121 qubits; breaking ECDSA needs ~20M qubits. With quantum advancements outpacing Moore’s Law, upgrades are prudent within a decade.

59:58 - Sponsor Plugs

Citrea (ZK rollup for Bitcoin financial apps) and Edge Wallet (duress mode, multi-coin support) highlighted.

01:02:30 - BIP 360 Number Selection

BIP 360 assigned by reviewers, not chosen by Hunterbeast, reserved for quantum-related proposals.

01:06:04 - BIP 360 Reception from Core Devs

Mixed feedback from reviewers like Ava Chow (called it “stupid” but provided useful critique). Still in draft at bip360.org, open for review.

01:11:29 - Unintended Consequences

BIP 360 is minimal, unlikely to cause surprises like Taproot’s ordinal inscriptions, as it enhances existing functionality.

01:12:42 - Is Quantum Resistance Perishable and Needs Updates?

BIP 360 isn’t definitive; periodic updates may be needed as quantum computers advance, requiring a proactive Bitcoin culture.

01:19:12 - NoOnes, Bitcoin.com,

01:21:46 - Best Practices for Quantum Safety

Avoid address reuse, use native SegWit (BC1Q) addresses, don’t expose Xpubs, and consider private mempools like MARA Slipstream for large transactions.

01:24:27 - Closing Remarks

Gratitude to Hunter Beast for discussing BIP 360 and quantum threats, wishing success for the proposal.

Prof. Richard Werner, one of the world's most famous economists, is best known for writing "Princes of the Yen" and penning the term "quantitative easing" in the 1990s while working at the Bank of Japan.

Today, he is a big advocate for small local banks and a believer in the power of Bitcoin. In this episode, he talks about recent events in economics, ranging from the Big Beautiful Bill in the US and all the way to CBDCs and Bitcoin's viability to bring more economic freedom to the world.

––––––––––––––––––––––

Time stamps:

00:00 - Introducing Professor Richard Werner, author of Princes of the Yen and originator of quantitative easing

01:27 - Sponsorships: Sideshift.ai, Citrea, LayerTwo Labs, Bitcoin.com News, NoOnes.com, and Edge Wallet.

02:07 - Big Beautiful Bill & Fiscal Policy: Discussion on the U.S. "Big Beautiful Bill" under Trump, increasing government spending despite promises to cut debt. Werner clarifies fiscal policy isn't direct money printing, using Japan’s experience as an example where massive spending didn’t cause inflation or growth due to lack of monetization.

05:06 - Monetization Concerns: Concerns about monetizing fiscal policy in the U.S., with Trump’s team encouraging banks to buy treasuries, potentially leading to inflation (8:39). The Federal Reserve’s role in possibly counteracting this is uncertain (9:46).

11:42 - Interest Rates & Quantitative Policy: Werner critiques the focus on interest rates, arguing quantitative policy (credit creation) is the real driver. Interest rates follow growth, not vice versa.

17:52 - Tariffs & Trade Policy: Trump’s return to tariffs (e.g., 30% on EU) is discussed. Werner supports tariffs for economic development, citing historical success and criticizing Ricardo’s free trade theory for ignoring terms of trade (19:24). Smart tariffs should encourage high-value exports and raw material imports (36:05).

44:07 - Austrian Economics Critique: Werner criticizes guru-driven economics, including Austrian school, for dismissing data. He emphasizes empirical, fact-based analysis over ideological axioms (45:58).

49:51 - Argentina & Mainstream Economics: Werner discusses Argentina’s free-market shift under Milei, critiquing mainstream economists like Krugman for often being wrong. Balanced budgets are preferred over debt-heavy policies (51:03).

1:08:58 - Central Bank Digital Currencies (CBDCs): Werner sees no upside to CBDCs, calling them a tool for centralized control. They enable tracking and restricting spending, unlike existing digital currencies (1:13:25). China’s cautious CBDC approach is noted, but Western central banks are distrusted (1:15:22).

1:16:51 - Stopping CBDCs: Strategies to oppose CBDCs include increasing cash use, adopting decentralized cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin, and public demonstrations against central banks (1:18:38).

1:20:40 - Stablecoins: Werner views stablecoins like Tether as a potential backdoor for central banks (Plan B) to achieve CBDC-like control, with a stealthier Plan C involving corporate digital reporting (1:23:04).

1:30:22 - EU’s Dictatorial Structure: Werner criticizes the EU’s undemocratic structure, comparing it to the Soviet Union. The European Commission’s power and corruption (e.g., vaccine deals) are highlighted (1:31:22).

1:40:38 - Bitcoin’s Role: Werner doubts a purely deflationary currency like Bitcoin can sustain an economy without credit creation. He suggests small banks using Bitcoin for credit to enable growth (1:41:40). Bitcoin’s shift to a store of value increases risks of a “death switch” (1:47:45).

1:44:42 - Bitcoin Price Prediction: Werner predicts Bitcoin reaching ~$995,000, driven by momentum and institutional adoption, but cautions about risks like an EMP or coded vulnerabilities (1:45:24).

1:52:22 - Bitcoin as Currency: Using Bitcoin for transactions rather than just a store of value could reduce risks and enhance longevity. Werner plans to integrate crypto in his Swiss bank project (1:53:40).

1:55:04 - Closing & Promotions: Werner promotes his Swiss Rhyntal bank project, Substack (rwerner.substack.com), and YouTube channel (Werner Economics).

Liz Steininger is the CEO of Least Authority: a company which specializes in auditing open source software since 2014. Originally founded by Zooko Wilcox, Least Authority has conducted more than 100 security audits in the space. Some of the best known contractors who requested an expert review include the Ethereum Foundation, the Electric Coin Company, Metamask, the KeyStone hardware wallet, and Avalanche.

Least Authority also builds products that make use of Zero Knowledge Proofs: PrivateStorage (a cloud storage system that's designed to make the host unaware of the files being stored), ZKAPs (Zero Knowledge Access Passes, an authorization system that separates the payer from the data on the items being bought), and Winden (a file-sharing service that's encrypted and requires no identity from the sender and receiver).

In a space which often defers to "check the code, it's open source", companies such as Least Authority offer high quality verification which makes it easier for the average non-technical person to trust that something is safe. Also, it helps builder have the peace of mind that what they're working on will not bring any unforeseen consequences.

Time stamps:

00:00 - Intro and Sponsor Mentions


Introduction to the podcast and sponsors: Sideshift, Bitcoin.com News, EdgeWallet, LayerTwo Labs, Citrea, NoOnes.com, and HODLING.ch.

01:17 - Guest Introduction: Liz Steininger


Liz Steininger, CEO of Least Authority, is introduced. Discussion begins about the company’s focus on security, privacy, and auditing in the crypto space.

1:57 - Irony of "Least Authority" Having a CEO


Liz addresses the irony of a company named Least Authority having a CEO, explaining their non-hierarchical approach and balance of leadership.

03:04 - Least Authority Philosophy and Nick Szabo’s Influence


Discussion on the principle of least authority, referencing Nick Szabo’s 2005 paper and its connection to Zooko, founder of Least Authority.

05:19 - Liz’s Tech Background


Liz shares her journey into tech, from early internet experiences to open-source and privacy-focused technologies.

09:36 - Role of Auditing Firms in Open-Source


Exploration of why auditing firms like Least Authority are necessary despite open-source code being publicly verifiable.

11:45 - Surprising Audit Findings


Liz discusses instances where Least Authority found unexpected issues during audits and the value of helping clients fix them.

12:16 - Notable Clients and Audits


Overview of Least Authority’s clients, including Zcash, MetaMask, Ethereum Foundation, Filecoin, Polygon, and Keystone hardware wallet.

14:35 - Predicting the Ethereum DAO Hack


Liz reflects on Least Authority’s 2015 Ethereum audit, which identified vulnerabilities that later contributed to the 2016 DAO hack.

17:43 - When to Conduct Audits


Discussion on the optimal timing for audits, depending on project roadmaps and feature development.

19:51 - Auditor Liability and Security Guarantees


Liz explains that no system can be 100% secure and discusses the limitations of auditor liability.

22:25 - Social Engineering and Security


Exploration of how social engineering can bypass even the most secure systems, with examples like SIM swapping and Pfizer leaks.

29:55 - Least Authority’s Products: Private Storage, ZKAPs, Winden


Overview of Least Authority’s products: Private Storage (client-side encrypted storage), ZKAPs (zero-knowledge access passes), and Winden (anonymous file transfer).

36:45 - ZKAPs Applications Beyond Storage


Liz discusses potential uses of ZKAPs for other services requiring privacy in payments, like VPNs or electricity.

43:53 - Winden’s Features and Use Cases


Detailed explanation of Winden’s end-to-end encrypted, identity-free file transfer, ideal for secure peer-to-peer sharing.

46:21 - Destiny: Mobile Version of Winden


Introduction to Destiny, a mobile app version of Winden using the same magic wormhole protocol.

50:00 - HRO Cloud for Human Rights Organizations


Discussion of HRO Cloud, a free version of Private Storage for qualified human rights organizations.

51:00 - Moon Math Manual


Overview of the Moon Math Manual, a resource for learning about ZK-SNARKs, inspired by the term “moon math” from Vitalik Buterin.

57:38 - Privacy, Law Enforcement, and Zero-Knowledge Proofs


Liz discusses how Least Authority minimizes data collection to avoid sharing with law enforcement, emphasizing privacy design.

1:01:59 - Privacy Market and Big Tech Adoption


Reflections on the growing demand for privacy tech and potential adoption of zero-knowledge proofs by major tech companies.

1:05:00 - Auditing Non-Crypto Projects


Liz notes that while most clients are crypto-related, they also audit non-crypto open-source projects, though funding is a challenge.

1:07:17 - Vibe Coding and Auditing Demand


Discussion on the rise of vibe coding (AI-generated code) and its potential to increase demand for audits, especially for smart contracts.

1:11:07 - Zcash Audit and Bitcoin Codebase


Liz considers whether their Zcash audit indirectly audited Bitcoin’s codebase, noting it’s an interesting question for further review.

1:13:05 - Publishing Audit Reports


Liz advocates for more industry-wide publication of audit reports to improve transparency and user education.

1:18:01 - Competing Auditing Firms


Liz discusses competition in the auditing space, varying by project type (e.g., smart contracts vs. protocols).

1:21:12 - Future of Privacy and Zcash Integration


Liz expresses hope for Zcash’s privacy tech to be integrated into Bitcoin, emphasizing its potential to drive mass adoption.

1:24:00 - Liz’s First Computer and Early Tech Memories


Liz shares nostalgic memories of using an Atari, Commodore 64, and AOL, encouraging listeners to comment “AOL” to prove they watched to the end.

1:28:37 - Closing and Winden Recommendation


Liz thanks the host and encourages listeners to try Winden, an open-source, free file transfer tool.

Diego Salazar & Luke Szramowski are working to build Cypher Space: a privacy & sovereignty company. In this episode, they compare + rate the privacy of Bitcoin, Monero, Zcash, Firo, Mimble Wimble (Litecoin, Grin), Zano & Beam.

Time stamps:

(00:00:59) Introducing Diego Salazar & Luke Szramowski

(00:02:04) Tribalism and Privacy Protocols in Crypto

(00:03:55) Why Privacy Matters & Personal Motivations

(00:04:58) Diego’s Background and Cypher Stack

(00:06:58) Luke’s Background and Mathematical Perspective

(00:08:40) CoinJoin and the Limits of Bitcoin Privacy

(00:09:10) Threat Models and Privacy Tool Selection

(00:12:22) CoinJoin’s Effectiveness and Metadata Attacks

(00:14:18) Comparing CoinJoin to Tor/VPN Usage

(00:17:26) Overconfidence and Under-Researched Privacy Claims

(00:19:52) Levels of Privacy and User Education

(00:24:31) Defining Adversaries in Privacy Research

(00:26:10) CoinJoin’s Real-World Threats and Research Gaps

(00:27:17) Social Media, Nuance, and Privacy Debates

(00:29:11) CoinJoin as “Add-On” Privacy and Side-Channel Attacks

(00:31:46) Underestimating Adversaries and Attack Tools

(00:38:37) Sponsor Plugs and Criteria for Privacy Evaluation

(00:42:47) Scoring CoinJoin on Privacy Criteria

(00:51:09) WabiSabi and Wasabi Wallet Improvements

(00:59:29) Other Bitcoin Privacy Tools: BIP47 & Silent Payments

(01:06:19) Human Error and Privacy Tool Usability

(01:08:51) The Limits of Privacy Ratings and the Need for Nuance

(01:12:19) Tribalism, Community Research, and Productive Debate

(01:15:33) Non-Interactive Proofs and Security Assumptions

(01:16:27) Bitcoin Maximalism and the Limits of Debate

(01:17:34) Academic Rigor and the Need for More Research

(01:20:01) Bitcoin’s Privacy Risks if Mainstream Adoption Happens

(01:21:44) The State of Bitcoin Privacy Research and Funding

(01:34:03) Bitcoin’s Missed Privacy Opportunities

(01:37:14) Monero’s History and Privacy Technologies

(01:41:03) Monero’s Anonymity Set and Privacy Trade-Offs

(01:46:52) Monero’s Current Weaknesses and Upcoming FCMP

(01:55:24) Monero’s Privacy Scores and Scalability

(02:27:50) Zcash: History, Community, and Technology

(03:00:29) Zcash’s Privacy Model and Accumulator Approach

(03:05:56) Zero-Knowledge Proofs Explained

(03:20:08) Zcash’s Privacy Scores and Tachyon Scalability

(03:35:12) Firo (formerly Zcoin) and Spark Protocol

(03:44:45) Firo’s Privacy Scores and Future Upgrades

(03:52:06) Litecoin MWEB and Mimblewimble

(04:01:32) MWEB Privacy Scores and Limitations

(04:07:03) Other Privacy Projects: Zano, Beam, Salvium

(04:10:02) Toxicity, Community, and the Human Element

(04:17:00) Philosophy of Privacy and Human Nature

(04:24:28) Fungibility, Bitcoin, and Social Realities

(04:44:15) Summary and Chart of Privacy Scores

(04:57:52) Resources for Privacy Research and Final Thoughts

Andrew Camilleri, better known as Kukks, is one of the most prolific contributors to BTCPay Server & an advocate for using bitcoin as money. Recently, he started building Bitcoin Layer 2 applications for Ark Labs & believes in conservative improvements.

Time stamps:

(00:00:49) Introduction & Andrew’s Background

(00:01:46) Getting Into Bitcoin & Altcoin Integrations

(00:03:02) Focusing on Bitcoin & Monero Plugin

(00:04:04) BTCPay Plugins & Community

(00:04:22) Bitcoin’s Imperfections & Altcoin Use Cases

(00:04:55) Pessimism & Stagnation in Bitcoin Development

(00:05:16) Introduction to Ark & Its Evolution

(00:06:10) Ark’s Technical Evolution

(00:07:31) Ark’s Impact on Developer Morale

(00:07:36) What is Ark?

(00:09:08) Ark’s Virtual Ledger & Dust Problem

(00:09:59) Off-Chain Payments & User Experience

(00:11:07) Lightning Network vs. Ark

(00:13:21) Custodial Lightning & Ark’s Broader Goals

(00:15:13) Escrow & Multisig Use Cases

(00:16:09) Bitcoin’s Usability & Fee Volatility

(00:16:51) Miners & Second Layer Economics

(00:19:08) Drivechains & Network Fragmentation

(00:21:38) Rollups, ZK Proofs, and Simplicity

(00:25:53) CTV, Musig2, and Soft Forks

(00:28:12) OP_CAT, Collider Script, and Efficiency

(00:32:38) Cost, Privacy, and Coinjoin

(00:36:12) Stablecoins, Payments, and Swapping

(00:38:14) Privacy, TumbleBit, and Ark’s Superiority

(00:41:03) Expiry, Operators, and User Experience

(00:44:14) Becoming an Ark Operator

(00:47:31) Fedimints, Liquid, and Privacy

(00:49:41) Security Against Operator Theft

(00:51:31) HODLing, Expiry, and Automation

(00:53:37) Payment Finality & Pre-Confirmation

(00:57:49) Government Attacks & Decentralization

(01:02:51) Ark’s User Experience & Wallet Integration

(01:05:11) Lightning Interoperability & Partnerships

(01:07:48) Arkade OS & Arcade Script

(01:13:06) Underrated Use Cases: Escrow & Synthetic Assets

(01:18:29) BTCPay Server’s Impact & Bitcoin Payment Adoption

(01:22:23) Speculation, Regulation, and Medium of Exchange

(01:24:20) Litecoin, Extension Blocks, and Privacy

(01:26:01) Coinjoin, Amounts, and Privacy Pools

(01:29:09) Bitcoin Upgrades, CTV, and Developer Frustration

(01:34:27) Soft Fork Politics & Overselling Upgrades

(01:41:53) Payments, Credit Cards, and Onboarding

(01:44:11) Stablecoins, Speculation, and Fiat Mindset

(01:48:48) Taproot Assets, Altcoins, and Control Tokens

(01:52:17) Early Bitcoin Days & Escrow

(01:54:53) Gaming, Digital Money, and Bitcoin Adoption

(01:59:15) Speculative Attack & Fiat Demand

(02:00:01) Supercycle Skepticism & Price Predictions

(02:02:22) Hard Forks, Big Blockers, and Research Value

(02:24:40) NFTs, Ordinals, and Free Market Transactions

(02:36:28) BTCPay Plugins & Comparison to LNBits

(02:43:14) Zero Conf, RBF, and Payment Risks

(02:47:41) Ark’s Future: Liquidity & Decentralization

(02:49:25) Testing Ark & Reference Wallet

(02:51:00) Browser Wars & Internet Evolution

(02:56:26) Scaling Bitcoin Payments & Libra Comparison

(02:58:10) Tipping, Custodial Wallets, and Ark’s SDK

(03:02:12) HODL Culture vs. Spending

(03:06:07) Optimism, Pessimism, and User Adoption

(03:08:13) Lightning’s Complexity & Ark’s Simplicity

(03:11:18) Competition Among Layer 2s

(03:14:13) Ark’s Launch, Operators, and Liquidity

(03:16:08) Ark Operator Incentives & Fee Structure

(03:17:08) Testing, Following, and Final Thoughts