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In this episode, we ask an age-old question that somehow also feels very of the moment: Can married and unmarried women be friends?

More specifically, can married and divorced women be friends? What about married women and women who have no interest in marriage at all, like those who see marriage as a hetero-patriarchal institution that we might all do well to opt out of? What about single women who are opting out of dating, and those who are actively seeking a husband?

We’ve noticed a certain tension between women bubbling under the surface of many conversations about the state of feminism, the shifting sands of marriage and divorce, and the dating scene today. Many are asking if it’s embarrassing to have a boyfriend, or a husband, and even if it’s worth dating men at all.

In this episode, we dig into how changing attitudes toward heterosexuality are affecting relationships between women themselves. What goes unspoken between straight women, and how do these silences keep us trapped and resenting each other, rather than fighting the institutions that don’t have our best interest at heart? How do our individual choices reflect our politics, and how much pressure do we put on ourselves, and each other, to solve big political and cultural problems, in the absence of a strong feminist movement?

This is a paywalled episode, which means it’s the episode we put out every month that gets personal. In this one, we go deep on our own friendship, including what it’s like for a happily married woman and happily divorcing woman to build a business together, and we get real about the conflicts we have faced with other women, as both a married person and a woman removing herself from marriage.

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Show highlights…

0:32 We’ve noticed certain tensions in the air…

2:45 Straight women are questioning whether men and marriage are the goal, connecting the dots between politics and personal lives, even opting out of dating.

4:39 Amanda would really like to know what the husbands are doing.

5:00 But some married women are, apparently, still finding value and happiness in marriage, and so, have feelings.

5:30 Other married women are just trying to hold it together—and stay in unhappy marriages because culturally, we make it so hard to leave!

6:30 Meanwhile men are trying to make women feel like they are always asking for too much.

9:00 Rejecting marriage, however, can be about thinking bigger about love, not smaller.

13:00 Is Tracy embarrassed to be married? Can Taylor Swift make marriage liberal?

16:00 We unpack why nuclear family = bad.

19:25 And why trad life isn’t connection and care but rather antisocial.

20:25 Regular reminder: love and partnership don’t actually require a marriage contract.

25:30 What should women do when they realize marriage is bad news for women, but they still love their husbands?

27:50 Tracy admits, well, “you don’t really get to remake the institution.”