You’re listening to Burnt Toast!
We are Virginia Sole-Smith and Corinne Fay, and it’s time for your September Indulgence Gospel!
It’s time for a mailbag episode, so we’ll be diving into your questions about:
⭐️ How to clap back when people say, “Wow, you’ve changed!”
⭐️ What to do with ageist grandparents? (We’re surprisingly…Team Grandparent on this one?)
⭐️ Why it’s so hard to like photos of ourselves!!!
⭐️ Is Back To School (the hype, the myth, the culture)…a diet?
And so much more!
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Episode 210 TranscriptVirginia
Corinne, how are you? What’s going on?
Corinne
I’m doing good. It’s really nice and cool here, and I’m so happy. It’s like 68.
Virginia
It’s really nice and cool here, too. Listeners of the future: We are recording this in July to be ahead of the game, but it is very September weather, and it’s helping me get in the September mindset for doing this episode.
Well and because it’s cooler, I do have some Pants Chat for us to get into. I’m wearing a new pair of pants from Imbodhi, which is the brand that makes that jumpsuit I’m obsessed with. They are called the Sora Wide Leg Pant, and they are basically, like the pants version of the jumpsuit. They have a fold-down waist, and they’re very stretchy, and they are just the most comfortable thing. But I am unclear if I am wearing pants or pajamas?
Corinne
I’m looking at their website. I don’t know anything about this brand. It looks very similar to Beyond Yoga.
Virginia
It’s very similar to Beyond Yoga. It’s a great brand (and I have a $15 off coupon for listeners!). The quality is really good. But they go up to only 3x. I’m wearing the 1X so I think it’s a legit 3X but, yeah. There are bigger sizes they could be making, and they’ve chosen not to, at this point in time. So this is the Sora Wide-Legged Pants in ribbed oatmeal. They’re the most comfortable thing. But do you see what I mean? They definitely have that “is it pants, or is it pajamas” vibe?
Corinne
They’re soft pants.
Virginia
And I think because they’re wide leg soft pants, they feel more pajama to me. Maybe I’m good with that? Maybe I’m in my pajama pants era?
Corinne
That seems reasonable.
Virginia
Well, that’s my pants news.
Corinne
That’s great pants news.
Virginia
Let’s jump into questions.
Corinne
Yes, I will ask the first question.
Doesn’t back to school kind of seem like a diet? There are the first day of school photos, the perfect bento box lunches, the school supplies, etc.
Virginia
I mean, absolutely. Absolutely, it’s all a diet.
Corinne
Need we say more?
Virginia
It is a diet, and it’s a diet I go on every year. We do first day of school photos. My kid’s dad does a letterboard sign with a clever pun about what grade they’re going into. My kids sort of hate the tradition, but now sort of love it. And we’re doing it. We’re locked in. We’ve got to have all 12 years of photos.
Corinne
But what’s the diet element? That it has to be perfect?
Virginia
Well, when I think about my most diety years of Back To School culture, it was the years, especially, when my kids were starting a new school. If they were starting kindergarten, or other transition years, where stress is really, really high. You’re going through a lot of feelings, and as the parent, you’re like, what can I control? I can have an adorable, monogrammed backpack that must be sourced! I can control that we have the right lunchbox and this and that.
You can just get so hyper about needing all the details. You need a good first day of school outfit. The teachers send these incredibly detailed school supply lists, and you’re in the aisle at Staples trying to kill yourself to find the right kind of pens. You can just be really extra with it, and it can feel like if you get it wrong, you’re sabotaging your child’s happiness. The stakes are really high. And so there are a lot of diet-y elements, for sure.
Here’s what’s helping me divest:
Number one, my children pick their own clothes.
I have not had input on the clothes that go on my children’s bodies since they were probably three or four years old at the most. So there’s no first day outfit anymore. Whatever they want to wear is the first day outfit. So that’s one thing. I’m no longer like, “I need adorable dresses!!” My kids don’t even like to wear dresses. So, done.
Number two, the drugstore in our town does this great thing where they get all the school supply lists from our kids schools. And if you just tell them your kid’s name and the teacher they have for the next year, they will just bag up all the supplies and you just pay and pick them up.
Corinne
That’s amazing.
Virginia
And so I just handed this whole project off to my kid’s dad. I was like, “You’re on school supplies. You do the drug store thing every year.” I don’t think about it anymore, and it does mean you don’t get to sit there and pick out which color folders you want. And as someone who loved school supply shopping myself, that is a little hard for me! But that’s why I was like, I have to just remove myself completely. So I just try to step back from as much of it as I can.
What do you see with your friends kids? Do you notice any back to school feelings?
Corinne
To be honest, I haven’t. But most of my friends’ kids are in what I would consider barely school. So it hasn’t hit yet. I do remember, as a kid, wanting to school shop and and also wanting a first day outfit.
Virginia
It’s very similar to New Year’s resolution culture. You can be like, “This is the year everything’s going to be perfect!” This is the year that all these things are going to go well. And we all know we’re gonna be crying by October. It is what it is.
So you can go in with a lot of a lot of energy that can be misdirected. But also: If it helps you get through the stress of that first day to pack a really good lunch for your kid, great. Do it. I think the potential for harm is when you’re being so obsessive about getting that photo that your kid is really unhappy. It’s worth asking: Will getting this detail right make your child’s day smoother? Then fine. If it’s creating more work and drama for everyone, maybe time to step back.
Corinne
If your kid wants to have a special outfit and stuff, fine. And how can you make it not into a diet for them?
Virginia
Yes. I think especially as kids get older, they can bring this energy as well. I definitely did as a kid. I was very extra about my first day of school outfits and all of that. I would like plan the whole first week and be really manic about it.
Corinne
This is so not surprising.
Virginia.
In a surprise to no one, Virginia was herself.
So I guess my point is: This is all optional, and a lot of it is capitalism, not education.
Corinne
Great point.
Virginia
I’ll read the next question.
On vacation, I noticed that I am struggling with photos of myself, and it feels like the final frontier of my body liberation. I guess the question is, have either of you struggled with this? And any suggestions for coping and shifting it? I admire all the fat bodies on my socials and think they look amazing and feel pretty good in my body, and think I look good in the mirror. So why am I so uncomfortable with the photos. It just feels like it’s not how I look in my head or in the mirror. Photographs are different, obviously, than real life. But it surprises me how jarring they can feel.
Corinne
I feel like there are a million ways to answer this question, but I will just start with this. Have you ever seen a bad photo of a hot person?
Virginia
Oooh.
Corinne
Like, yeah. Obviously you have. There are horrible paparazzi photos of everybody, of America’s hottest people.
Virginia
Every beautiful person can take a bad photo. Yes, yes, yes.
Corinne
You’re pulling one second out of the movie of your life, or whatever. Obviously, there are going to be weird, bad photos.
Virginia
I also really love that meme that surfaces periodically reminding us that it is impossible to take a good photo of the moon. And we think the moon is beautiful. Sunsets, also very hard to photograph well.
Corinne
So true.
Virginia
Even in my garden, there are things that are prettier in real life than I can capture in a photo. You just can’t get the depth or the angle.
Corinne
Colors!
Virginia
The colors don’t translate. There are so many beautiful things that look better in real life than in photos. And that may include you. It certainly includes me.
But I do absolutely struggle with this. I deeply related to this question. One thing that helps me is to remember that I have been very thrown by photos of myself throughout my whole life. There was no period in my life where I regularly saw photos and thought, “That looks exactly like me and I look amazing.” Like, even when I was thin, I would nitpick photos. And I now frequently do that thing where I look back at an old photo and think, oh my God. What was I worried about? Like, this is absurd. And so I can only assume that would continue to happen. Feelings I have about photos I take now, at age 44 when I’m 54 or 70 I’m going to be like, what was I worried about?
Corinne
I think also: Have you ever had a conversation about this with a friend where they’re like, oh, I hate this photo of myself, and you’re like, “What?”
Virginia
What are you even seeing?
Corinne
Yeah, it’s maybe not the best photo. And also, whatever.
Virginia
There are also all the ways that technology messes with this. Like, right now, we’re looking at each other on Zoom, and Zoom is mirroring my face at me, which is how I see myself in the mirror. So I look right to me. But if you’ve ever gone into Zoom and had it be not mirrored, you’re like, who the hell is that person? But that’s how everyone else sees your face all the time! That’s actually your face! So a lot of this is, we just don’t know what we look like, the photo both isn’t capturing you and it’s capturing you in a way that you never see yourself, so it’s super disorienting.
Corinne
Yeah, I agree. It’s a certain amount of acceptance, just practicing acceptance of bad photos. And consider, what would you say to your friend about it?
Virginia
It’s also maybe useful to know that you’re going to have this reaction. Just plan for it and be able to say, like, I am uncomfortable with myself in photos. Like, that’s something to work on, and that’s something you can overcome, but it can also just be a true statement right now, and you still had a great vacation. It’s still nice to have the memories of the vacation. If you have kids, yes, be in the photo with your kids. You are going to be really glad you have those at some point in your life. Be in the photo with your loved ones. There’s this whole problem with moms erasing themselves from the family memories, because we take all the photos, and nobody ever takes photos of us. And that’s terrible.
So I think it’s it’s fine to know it makes you uncomfortable, and it’s probably worth forcing it to happen anyway.
Corinne
It’s also fine to take photos and not look at them.
Virginia
Do you think that now that we take a lot of photos of ourselves for our jobs, does it make photos easier for you?
Corinne
I’m someone who has always taken a lot of photos of myself.
Virginia
Yes, your Instagram handle is Selfie Fay.
Corinne
Since like, high school, if not earlier. And I do find that exposure kind of helps, and I do think it kind of helps you with that mindset of just like, well, it’s just one photo. There are photos of myself I like and photos of myself I don’t like.
Virginia
Yep, agreed.
Corinne
And I still have a reaction sometimes where I see a photo of myself and I’m like, ughhhh.
Virginia
But it feels like it’s less weighted, because it’s not like twice a year you’re seeing photos of yourself on vacations and holidays.
Corinne
Yeah. It’s less jarring.
Virginia
Also, I don’t know who took the photos, but a lot of people are bad at taking photos. Really bad at it. Even people who think they’re good at it, or have nice cameras or fancy phones or whatever. It is a skill. There is a reason people are paid photographers. And so if you don’t like the photo, it’s also worth remembering that the person who took it probably didn’t think about lighting or composition or any of the elements that make a photo that your brain would be like, oh, that’s nice.
Corinne
Yeah, I’ve definitely had the experience where I ask someone to take a photo of me, and then they’re like, kneeling down on the ground. I’m like, “What are you doing? That’s not the angle!”
Virginia
And then you’re like, I really want to ask them to take it again and tell them how to do it, but I feel like that’s rude, so I shouldn’t, but…
Corinne
I’ve never been like, I want them to do it again. But I have definitely been like, well, that was kind of a waste.
Virginia
If there are photos you like of yourself, maybe it’s also worth thinking about what is it about those pictures that you like. This is maybe a little bit of beauty culture mindset. But if you like photos of yourself better with your hair down or your hair up, maybe make a point to put your hair up or down, whichever it is before you take the photo, because it’ll just remove a layer of stress. I think that’s harm reduction. It is obviously a beauty standard, but maybe checking that box makes the experience less stressful.
Corinne
Ok, I will read the next question.
I would love some suggestions for navigating fatphobia while pregnant and nursing. I’m currently four months pregnant, and the sheer amount of fatphobia and diet culture I’ve been subjected to is mind boggling.
My provider has so far not brought up my weight, although I have been weighed at every appointment. But all of the materials and guidance I’ve gotten from them has been related to not eating too much, not eating, quote, empty calories, exercising regularly. And then on top of that is the breastfeeding propaganda about how it will help you lose the baby weight and how breastfeeding prevents obesity. Navigating all of this on top of my own feelings about rapid body changes and an unprecedented level of body surveillance from family is a lot!
This episode will be coming out after I get back from visiting some very diet culture family. So I’ll definitely be in need of some Burnt Toast counter programming.
Virginia
All right, we got you! Good job surviving the family visit. We’re back now. Let’s get into it.
Corinne
Are you okay?
Virginia
Do you need a hug? Do you need a cookie? We are here.
Oh, it’s so hard, like you’re not doing enough growing an actual human being with your body. You have to deal with all of this. It is so much! Pregnancy and postpartum are really, can be really challenging times for people’s relationships with their bodies, and all of this medical messaging and fearmongering does not help.
I think it’s great your provider is not bringing up weight. And I would really laser focus in on that, and ignore all the materials and guidance. It is really possible to have a great pregnancy and never read a pamphlet about pregnancy. If your doctor is not saying to you, “this is super important for your health,” then who cares? You don’t have to be an A student and read all the pamphlets, or all the books or all the Instagram content about this.
Corinne
I have so much empathy for pregnant people. I just know that I would really hate the body surveillance stuff. I feel like that is out of control and something you kind of can’t do anything about. Even if you tell people, “I don’t want to hear it,” they’re not going to stop.
Virginia
Or they’re still surveying you even if they’re not saying anything. If you’re with diet, culture-y family, you might have set the boundary around the conversation. And it also comes from total strangers, like you’re just in the grocery store, and people feel free to comment on your body. It’s horrendous.
Corinne
Totally. And also, I can only imagine how disorienting and horrible the body changes are to go through. You know, it’s a lot!
Virginia
It’s a lot, it’s a lot.
I do want to mention that we had some folks chatting about this recently in the Burnt Toast chat. And there is now a WhatsApp group of Burnt Toasties who are all new parents postpartum, trying to navigate without diet culture. So that might be a great safe space for you to check out. And obviously, the more like minded people that go there, the better that chat will be.
[Post-recording note: Just to clarify, we love that this WhatsApp group is happening, but Virginia and Corinne aren’t participating/it’s not an official form of BT content!]
Corinne
Yeah, that’s awesome.
Virginia
I do think this is a real find your people moment. And this person doesn’t say if it’s a first pregnancy or not, but I think especially in your first pregnancy, there’s a lot of forming bonds with people just because we’re all going through this life experience. But you really need to find people who are going through the life experience with the same values as you in order to really support one another.
So that’s definitely something to think about, even if you can just identify one friend in your circle who’s a safe person on all of this, that you can, like, vent to and support each other when this noise gets loud. I’ll also link to some other stuff I’ve written on pregnancy over the years, because we revisit this pretty often.
Why "Building a Healthy Baby" is Bullshit
When The Pregnancy App Talks About "Belly-Only Weight Gain," We Have Work To Do
"Is My Body Too Big To Be Pregnant?"
We Need To Talk About Fat Fertility
The Fat Mother Narrative
The bottom line is sort of similar to the conversations we’re having about menopause right now. This is a huge life change. Your body is going through a lot. Your weight is the least interesting thing about it. And, you can have a totally healthy pregnancy and not be hyperfixated on weight or calories or any of these things. This is all optional. Breastfeeding is optional. It’s all optional. So, really feeling grounded in like, I get to choose what serves me right now, and I know from past experience, diet culture never serves me. So why would it serve me now when I’m doing something this difficult and life changing.
Corinne
It does feel like one of those things where the diet culture is just so ingrained, it’s really hard to find an alternative.
Virginia
It’s really similar to the perimenopause stuff. Everyone who is a credible expert on this subject also suddenly has a supplement to sell you, and it’s so maddening.
I will read the next one.
Do you have any good clap backs for situations where people you haven’t seen in a long time make comments about how much you have changed? I would feel less anxious having some prepared sentences under my belt.
Corinne
Okay, I have two things to say about this. The first one is, I think if someone comes up to you and says, “Oh, wow, you’ve changed,” you should say, “Thank you.”
Virginia
Nice.
Corinne
Yes, thank you.
If you want something a little different, you could be like, “What do you mean?” And really make them spell it out. But that is going to be an exercise in tolerating some amount of discomfort if they want to tell you what they mean. I think you could also say, “Yes, I have changed, and I’m so much happier or healthier,” or whatever. Even if it’s a lie, just say it.
Virginia
This is definitely a situation where lying is strongly encouraged because this person is being obnoxious.
Corinne
And then I also just want to say: I do think this is kind of one of those social anxiety things that you’re going to worry a lot more about happening than it will actually happen. It’s just one of those things that’s a nightmare scenario in your head and probably won’t actually happen in real life.
Virginia
Okay, yes, I think that’s completely true. But it is also true that people may be thinking things, and you’re aware of what they’re thinking. But —that’s a them problem, not a you problem.
Corinne
I'd love some help addressing how the grandparents are talking about aging with grandkids. While I've somehow managed to train the grandparents to not discuss bodies in terms of fat/thin/size/weight (yay!), they feel totally free to discuss how much they hate aging, wrinkling skin, botox and other body modification as it pertains to “fighting aging.” The increase in these topics definitely aligns with the celebrities around their age (and even younger) recently revealing totally new faces and necks (Kris Jenner, Ricki Lake, Lauren Sanchez, etc.). Somehow that seems to give them permission to bring the public discourse to my kids (it shouldn't).
I actually had a really great conversation with my kids (who are under 10) about how kids expect their bodies to change while adults expect their bodies to stay the same, when the reality is that bodies change forever and that there should never be an expectation of sameness. And my kids were like, duh. I'm growing, I'm going to hit puberty, I'm going to be an adult, and then I'm going to shrink (they mean in height, which made me lol). And I was like, 'well, there are many years between growing and shrinking, and in those years, your body still continues to change! That's what bodies do. But adults forget and then they get upset.'
This conversation was great with the kids, but the grandparents absolutely couldn't handle 'another topic they can't talk about with my kids. Thoughts?
Virginia
I think you handled it perfectly, and all that really matters is that you can discuss this with your kids, which you can. So I wouldn’t even attempt to put any guardrails around the grandparents on this.
Corinne
I agree that it does seem weird that your parents are talking to your kids about both their feelings about Botox. And I agree that asking them to stop is probably not going to work and just create a bunch of tension.
Virginia
The grandparents are the ones grappling with this. It feels like a time where we kind of need to check our own age privilege? I don’t know how I’m going to feel about all that stuff when I’m in my 60s and 70s. It’s going to feel harder than it feels right now, in various ways, I’m sure. Maybe also easier, I don’t know. But the point is, I haven’t lived through that. Your parents are talking from their lived experience. You don’t have to agree with their choices. You can have your own take on this. Obviously, I agree with you that bodies grow and change, and that’s something we should be embracing, but I think you can just reframe it with your kids and kind of let it wash over you when it comes from the parents, because it’s their stuff. It’s not your stuff.
Corinne
But sometimes I wonder, in this situation where you’re like, “I don’t want my kids to hear that,” is it actually bothering you and you want to say something to them about it, but you don’t know how to do that?
Virginia
Because your kids sound fine. They were like, “yeah, Grandma talked about Botox. That’s weird. Anyway.” I don’t think they were internalizing it. And I think this is so common, when people are like, “What do I do about my mom talking to my kids?” Often the kids are fine, because what a grandparent says to them doesn’t have the same impact as what your mom says to you. So I think this is one of those moments.
And if you want to set boundaries around that, I think you can find ways to be like, “I’m not really here for an age bashing conversation today,” or “I think you look great anyway.” You can set up some boundaries.
But I kind of don’t blame the grandparents for being like, “Stop giving me a list of things I can’t talk to your kids about.” It is a little micro managing. I get it. And I do feel like when people are talking about their own stuff, that’s really different from if a grandparent was directly criticizing how your child eats or your child’s body, that’s where you have to intervene. If a grandparent is like “no more pasta for your kid, she’s getting fat,” that’s where you have to jump in and set boundaries and protect your kid.
But if the grandma is not eating pasta—
Corinne
Their body, their choice.
Virginia
And you can keep reframing with your kids why you are not making that same choice.
Corinne
If it’s bothering you, I think sometimes a nice approach is just to be like, hey, when you talk about this, I feel X way. Like it gives me anxiety when you’re talking about having Botox, like I’m not quite there yet and it freaks me out.
Virginia
Yeah, just let them know you’re not the audience for this. I hope they have other people in their lives who want to talk about Botox.
All right. Next question.
Are shows like Too Much and Survival of the Thickest normalizing dating plus size women for heterosexual men? I hope so!
Corinne
You would have to ask the heterosexual men.
Virginia
Are heterosexual men watching Too Much and Survival of the Thickest?
Corinne
Great question.
Virginia
I do not think those shows have a strong, cis, straight man audience. I think they’re watched by women and gay men.
Corinne
I also feel like, I mean, are they normalizing it on television? Maybe. I also think, in real life, men dating plus size women is normal.
Virginia
That’s what I was going to say. I don’t think the men are watching these shows. I also don’t think we actually have to normalize this. I think it’s normalized. I go back to the Kate Manne interview where she talked about how it’s a number one porn search term. Straight men are attracted to fat women. They just are. And of course, there’s a lot of noise around that, and there are some men who are not or who are assholes about it. Absolutely true. But it’s not all men. That makes me sound like an apologist for men, and I’m uncomfortable with it. But I actually think it’s more normal than you think it is for straight men to be attracted to fat women.
But what I think these shows are doing is normalizing four plus size women that we can see ourselves as attractive. They’re helping us get over it. Or I think they can be helpful for helping us get over it.
Corinne
And I think they’re definitely normalizing it being on TV. And, I do like to see that on TV.
Virginia
I think that’s really important, and we need more of it. I mean, this idea that straight men are only attracted to thin women is a figment of Hollywood’s imagination. It’s a figment of diet cultures imagination. It’s not what’s actually happening. So more representation of reality is very useful. Plus, they’re both fairly fun shows.
Corinne
The next one is a gardening question for you.
We planted a bunch of stuff this year. I was all organized and have a cute, color coded map and everything. Now, how do I keep track of what needs to be pruned back in the fall or left over winter? Do I need a spreadsheet, or am I overthinking it?
Virginia
Wow, this is a person after my own heart. And also I will link to the piece I wrote about divesting perfectionism in the garden. You don’t need a spreadsheet.
Divesting from Garden PerfectionismI do keep lists of things I plant every year because it’s helpful to know what you’ve planted. And I have used a spreadsheet when mapping out what to put in raised beds. Sometimes I just draw it, like plot it out, how you’re gonna plant things. And so I understand the need to do this. But no, I don’t think you need to keep a spreadsheet of what needs to be pruned back in the fall or left over winter.
The answer is much simpler. Almost everything can be left over the winter. It’s actually great to leave most of your perennials standing. They will form seed pods. There will be dry stalks, but that creates actually a lot of habitat. There are a lot of overwintering bees that like to nest in the stems of perennial plants. There are a lot of little critters that like to live in the leaf litter, and the seed pods get eaten by birds over the winter. So leaving your garden standing, even if it looks a mess is a very environmentally friendly thing to do.
I tidy up a little more out front and then leave the back for the birds and the bees. if you live in a neighborhood where that feels like your neighbors might be judgey or whatever.
Otherwise, the only things I cut back personally in the fall are peonies and hostas, because both of their foliage can harbor disease if they’re left to get wet and slimy. So those I cut back. But definitely all natives I leave standing. Pretty much everything else I leave standing.
Corinne
When do you cut it back?
Virginia
I cut it back in the spring after we’ve had about a week of 50 degree days or higher, because that’s when everything warms up and the hibernating bees come out and everybody’s like, okay, I’m good, I’m good, I’m safe. And then you can cut it back. So yeah, that’s the answer. You don’t need a spreadsheet. Leave basically everything except for your peonies and hostas.
Shrubs are a little bit of a different question. There are some shrubs that are better to be pruned in the fall and some that are better to be pruned in the spring. I would, if you have tons of different kinds of shrubs, maybe you would need a spreadsheet to keep track of that. But if you’ve planted a couple of shrubs just look up those specific things. And it is shrubs specific, so I’m not going to get into it. But yeah, just look up your shrubs, see when they best need to be pruned. Maybe keep track of that. And other than that, leave everything.
Corinne
Hmm, cool. I do like the I like the idea of a spreadsheet personally, but just because I’m very forgetful.
Virginia
Well, I could see it being helpful for the shrubs, definitely. Like, I’m just thinking around my own yard. And it’s like, lilacs you have to prune immediately after they flowers so you don’t destroy next year’s buds.
Corinne
I’m already too late.
Virginia
Yes, you are. Some hydrangeas you prune in the fall, and some hydrangeas, you can’t prune until the spring. And blueberries need to be pruned in the winter. Shrubs are weird. They all have their own ideal times to be pruned, related to preserving next year’s flowers. So it could be helpful to have a spreadsheet. Now, I’m like, okay, yeah, I want a shrub spreadsheet.
But you don’t need everything else. And the color coded map. The only reason I’m laughing at that a little bit is once you’re a few years into gardening, you will learn that plants don’t always stay where you put them. They get bigger. Sometimes they seed themselves in new locations. A lot of things often don’t survive the winter that and then you have a hole. Every year the map looks a little different. So don’t feel like you have to have it all nailed down. That’s the perfectionism thing. Gardening is not interior design. It’s not making a quilt. You’re not nailing things into space.
All right, our last question is a very delightful, whimsical one.
If you could turn into an animal, what animal would it be, and why?
Corinne
I’m having a very hard time settling on one. First, I thought, a horse. I don’t know, seems fun.
Then I was like, okay, maybe a whale?? Also seems fun to be swimming around. And then I was also like, I feel like my dog has a pretty nice life. Like, a dog in a cushy home environment where you can just kind of nap all day and get fed treats.
Virginia
I went to cat for the same reason, but even more so, because I think as an introvert, I’m more suited to cat life because cats can also be like, Fuck you, I’m out of here.
Corinne
So true.
Virginia
Whereas dogs have that need to be with you all the time, and I think I would personally start to chafe against that.
Corinne
I think if I were a cat, I’d want to be an outdoor cat, though.
Virginia
No, you don’t live very long.
Corinne
Seems fun to hunt birds?
Virginia
I know, but also they’re really hurting the bird population. I’m going to get a text from my mom if I don’t say that. So no outdoor cats. They’re bad for the birds.
Corinne
Okay, my bad.
Virginia
I think I would want to be an indoor cat. And I was also thinking about sea creatures. Octopus seems cool.
Corinne
That does seem cool. Seems pretty great. Wow.
Virginia
Oh. And then my final choice would be elephant, because I adore elephants. They’re amazing.
ButterCorinne
I don’t have a Butter. What’s yourButter?
Virginia
We’ve failed at Butter?! Well, I have a Butter but if you think it’s too diet-y, tell me, and I’ll pick a different Butter.
My Butter this week is one minute planks. I’m doing a one minute plank every day. I worked up to one long plank. I should say. I started at 20 seconds. I’ve worked up to a minute.
Corinne
Yeah, all right.
Virginia
And by that I mean yesterday and today I did one minute. Before that, I was doing 20 seconds and then 30 and then 45. The reason I’m doing this is we have a crazy schedule this week. I don’t have time to actually do a workout, even, like, a 15 minute workout. Like, it’s just not happening. And I was getting stressed about it, because my back hurts more when I don’t work out and I don’t need to deal with my back hurting.
Corinne
I thought you were going to say, because mental illness.
Virginia
I mean also that. So many reasons that I need to get a workout in. But specifically for me, working out is primarily about managing back pain. And then I was like, I can also do five minutes—not even, three minutes—of hip stretches and a one minute plank. And then my back doesn’t hurt. For today anyway. And that is my Butter! Figuring out the shortest possible way to be like, yes, I moved my body a little bit today, despite the fact I also drove children to 47 locations and had no time to work and everything is a little chaotic.
Corinne
I think that’s a good Butter.
Virginia
Obviously you don’t have to do planks if you don’t like them. I didn’t like them for a long time. Yours could be something totally different, but I’m weirdly into it, and I might be setting a goal of learning to do push ups? Casual just maybe, maybe, maybe I’m thinking about learning to do push ups.
Corinne
I love that!
Virginia
Which I can’t do.
Corinne
Did something influence that?
Virginia
Well, I do a lot of weight lifting videos, and there’s often a push up portion that I can’t do. I can do them against a counter, but I can’t do them on the floor. And it’s just been one of those things. My whole life, I’ve always been like, “I can’t do push ups.” Like I can’t get back up, and it feels like I should be able to. Or maybe it’s learnable, and maybe I want to spend some small amount of time seeing if I can learn it.
Corinne
Cool. Can you do them on your knees?
Virginia
Yeah, I can do them on my knees. But I’ve never progressed. I’ve been at this level of modified push up forever, and I’m just like, what would it take to cross over? Not because I want to be a Navy Seal or anything. You know, I’m not going to do the push ups where they clap in the middle or whatever, but it feels like a mountain I could climb. And by which I mean, like, this feels like it should be an achievable goal.
Corinne
Yeah, I think it’s definitely an achievable goal.
Virginia
I don’t know. Do you like push ups? Are you a push up person?
Corinne
No, I’m not a push up person. But I do think there’s something fun sometimes about having an exercise goal that feels fun for you. And obviously you’re not going to go down a hole if you don’t get there.
Virginia
It’s something to do just for the sake of doing that thing. There’s no other agenda attached. I’m just like, oh, I can’t do a push up. I wonder if I could learn to do a push up. I don’t know! So we’ll see where it goes.
Corinne
I think it might be less of a learning thing and more of a building strength thing.
Virginia
I do feel like there’s a part of my brain that doesn’t understand it, though. I can go down and I just can’t get back up.
Corinne
But I think that’s strength, not your brain. It’s that those muscles aren’t strong enough.
Virginia
But, I can’t even figure out which muscles I want to activate? Like, I just get down there and I’m like, what would it be? Is it my arms? Is it my core? I don’t know. How do people do this?
Corinne
Maybe ask Anna Maltby.
Virginia
Anna Maltby, I need you!
Corinne
This will be an interesting one to check back in on.
Virginia
Okay, let’s see if I forgot all about it days after we recorded this, or if I am suddenly a push up queen, stay tuned.
[Post-recording note: Virginia has done no further push-ups! But it could still happen…some day!]
Corinne
I’m going recommend something very basic, but I want to recommend Baggu bags. I don’t really carry a purse if I’m going somewhere. I usually just claw my phone, my wallet, and my keys in one hand. I feel like there are a lot of memes about girls holding stuff. Then recently I was like, why don’t I just throw all this into a Baggu and carry that around instead?
Virginia
So you discovered…the concept of a purse?
Corinne
Yeah, but not a permanent purse. Like, I take it back out and I’ll use different ones at different times.
Virginia
You’re talking about the reusable shopping bag style, yeah?
Corinne
Yeah. I can sometimes still claw all my stuff and then sometimes have it in a little bag. But, yeah, I just think they’re great bags. And people are always like, wow, that’s such a cute bag. They’re really cute. Right now, I have some of the vegetable and fruit ones. I have like a melon one and a radish one.
Virginia
I have the strawberry one, and I love it.
Corinne
I have the strawberry one as well, so cute. They’re just very convenient, very lightweight, cute, colorful. So I’m recommending Baggu bags.
Virginia
I just ordered for my middle schoolers birthday—she’s a big horse kid and they have a new horse print. So I just got her one for, like, I don’t know what she’ll use it for, but. And I got her the little horse charm. Did you see that?
Corinne
I got a text from them about it. I was like, I need to send this to Virginia.
Virginia
And then you’re like, she gets the text as well. They really have transformed my actually remembering bags at the grocery store because they fold up so small that I can actually have them. I just remember to have them with me in a way that I never did, bulky bags.
Corinne
Because then also, if I’m carrying my wallet, etc, in one and then I’m stopping at the store, then I just dump the stuff out and use it. It’s very convenient.
Virginia
Yeah, you’re there. You’re already ready to use. They’re so well done. And I love the zipper pouches. Sorry, this is now becoming a whole Baggu ad. But you know what, guys, if you’re not on that train with us, you should get on it. They’re great.
