The Burnt Toast Podcast

This is a hard conversation. Content warning if any of that sounds not helpful to you today, but it is an important one, and Christopher has lots of strategies and scripts to help.

Indulgence Gospel segments are for paid subscribers, who also get transcripts and commenting privileges. Don't miss out — join us here!

• FREE LISTENERS can find this episode on Apple, Spotify, YouTube or the podcast player of your choice.
• PAID SUBSCRIBERS can listen right here on Patreon, or add your member-only feed to the podcast player of your choice. Indulgence Gospel starts at the timestamp tk. You can find an AI-generated transcript of this segment if you’re following us on Apple or Spotify!

Christopher Pepper is an award-winning health teacher whose lesson plans are used in schools around the globe. He’s been an educator for more than two decades, and currently teaches 9th grade health education in Los Altos, California. 

He is the co-author of the bestselling book Talk to Your Boys: 16 Conversations to Help Tweens and Teens Grow into Confident, Caring Young Men, and also writes the popular newsletter Teen Health Today.

I first met Christopher while reporting Fat Talk. He's quoted frequently in my chapter on diet culture in schools. We are going to talk about diet culture today, and specifically how diet culture trends like looksmaxxing and bodybuilding are impacting boys.

Virginia's Butter: Joining your school's PTA and serving on their equity, diversity, and inclusion committee.

Christopher's Butter: Joining a men's group, like Ever Forward Club or Next Gen Men.

Talk to Your Boys: 16 Conversations to Help Tweens and Teens Grow into Confident, Caring Young Men by Christopher Pepper, Joanna Schroeder

Christopher Pepper: Channel Your Rage Into Action Against Rape (Substack)

NYT: "Racists Are Recruiting: Watch Your White Sons" by Joanna Schroeder

Kate Manne: They Didn’t Want Consent (Substack)

https://www.patreon.com/virginiasolesmith/posts/how-do-we-raise-173458592

EPISODE CREDITS

Co-hosts: Virginia Sole-Smith and Corinne Fay.

Producer: Kim Baldwin.

Logo design: Deanna Lowe.

Theme Song: Farideh.

Video Editor: Elizabeth Ayiku

Audio Engineer: Tommy Harron

Follow us on social!

Virginia is on Instagram and Threads as @v_solesmith and on Bluesky at @virginiasolesmith.

Corinne is on Instagram at @selfiefay, on Bluesky at @corinnefay and on Patreon at Big Undies.

Support the Me Little Me Foundation, a virtual food pantry supporting multiply marginalized folks recovering from eating disorders.

Thanks for listening and supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism!

SO many of you have asked for this episode, and there is SO much to get into — so no Indulgence Gospel this week! Free listeners will get the first half of our conversation, and paid subscribers will get the whole shebang, including our analysis of what Kids Eat In Color really thinks about GLP-1s and intentional weight loss for kids. Don't miss out — join us here!

• FREE LISTENERS can find this episode on Apple, Spotify, YouTube or the podcast player of your choice.
• PAID SUBSCRIBERS can listen right here on Patreon, or add your member-only feed to the podcast player of your choice. You can find an AI-generated transcript of the entire episode if you’re following us on Apple or Spotify!

Laura Thomas, PhD is a registered nutritionist based in London. She writes the fantastic newsletter, Can I Have Another Snack?, where she aims to complicate overly simplistic narratives about food, nutrition and bodies. She's also the author of two books about intuitive eating, Just Eat It and How to Just Eat It: A Step-by-Step Guide to Escaping Diets and Finding Food Freedom.

Laura joined us for the second episode in my series on The Picky Eating Backlash. We kicked this off with Episode 265, where Amy Palanjian joined us to explain why certain conversations around picky eating (especially the ones that blame moms and processed foods) tend to go viral so easily.

Virginia's Butter: enjoying the end of dahlia season before the first frost hits

Laura's Butter: rain and getting matching tattoos with your bestie

What Instagram Gets Wrong About Feeding Your Kids

The Ballerina Farm of Kid Food Instagram

Laura on Ultra-Processed Foods Part 1

Laura on UPF Part 2

https://www.patreon.com/virginiasolesmith/posts/has-kids-eat-in-172829763

EPISODE CREDITS

Co-hosts: Virginia Sole-Smith and Corinne Fay.

Producer: Kim Baldwin.

Logo design: Deanna Lowe.

Theme Song: Farideh.

Video Editor: Elizabeth Ayiku

Audio Engineer: Tommy Harron

Follow us on social!

Virginia is on Instagram and Threads as @v_solesmith and on Bluesky at @virginiasolesmith.

Corinne is on Instagram at @selfiefay, on Bluesky at @corinnefay and on Patreon at Big Undies.

Support the Me Little Me Foundation, a virtual food pantry supporting multiply marginalized folks recovering from eating disorders.

Thanks for listening and supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism!

Indulgence Gospel segments are for paid subscribers, who also get transcripts and commenting privileges. Don't miss out — join us here!

SHOP:

Virginia's Butter: Going through your credit card statements and cancelling unnecessary subscriptions. Hello, efax?!

Corinne's Butter: TruFru

READ:

Big Undies: The Search for a Perfectly Oversized Plus Size Button Up Shirt Continues...

Burnt Toast: The Only 6 Jeans Worth Buying (According to Science)

The Weigh In Podcast

The Myth of Making It: A Workplace Reckoning by Samhita Mukhopadhyay

Big Undies: Samhita Mukhopadhyay style questionnaire

The Cut: “Mounjaro and Me” by Samhita Mukhopadhyay

NYT: “In the Ozempic Era, Who Needs Weight Watchers? A new podcast, with a feminist host, aims to keep the decades-old diet brand in the GLP-1 conversation.”

The Cut: "What It Feels Like at Cornell Right Now" by Kate Manne

The Cut: "The Strong, Empowered, Secretly Broke Divorcée" by Melinda Wenner Moyer

The Cut: “I Should Be Allowed to Cold-Call My Friends”

https://www.patreon.com/virginiasolesmith/posts/why-is-weight-1-172152397

EPISODE CREDITS

Co-hosts: Virginia Sole-Smith and Corinne Fay.

Producer: Kim Baldwin.

Logo design: Deanna Lowe.

Theme Song: Farideh.

Video Editor: Elizabeth Ayiku

Audio Engineer: Tommy Harron

Follow us on social!

Virginia is on Instagram and Threads as @v_solesmith and on Bluesky at @virginiasolesmith.

Corinne is on Instagram at @selfiefay, on Bluesky at @corinnefay and on Patreon at Big Undies.

Support the Me Little Me Foundation, a virtual food pantry supporting multiply marginalized folks recovering from eating disorders.

Thanks for listening and supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism!

Indulgence Gospel segments are for paid subscribers, who also get transcripts and commenting privileges. Don't miss out — join us here!

• FREE LISTENERS can find this episode on Apple, Spotify, YouTube or the podcast player of your choice.
• PAID SUBSCRIBERS can listen right here on Patreon, or add your member-only feed to the podcast player of your choice. Indulgence Gospel starts at the timestamp 34:23. You can find an AI-generated transcript of this segment if you’re following us on Apple or Spotify!

Mary Mahoney, who also goes by Mimi, is a historian and writer who wrote Dolls of Our Lives: Why We Can't Quit American Girl. She also makes an incredible podcast and newsletter called Landline that gives pop culture some context. It's like a group text for people who love footnotes or the answer to the question: why can't history feel more like Us Weekly?

BUTTER & LINKS

Mary's Dolly tribute essay

Dolly's 1978 Playboy interview

Gloria Steinem's event with Miss Piggy at the Brooklyn Museum in 2015

Reese Witherspoon's Dolly Parton interview

1984 Interview Magazine interview

@Culture Study's Dolly Parton Syllabus

Billionaires who want to live forever

Mary's Butter: Ms. Rachel (featuring I Love A Rainbow) & Dolly singing Johnny Cash's I Still Miss Someone.

Virginia's Butter: Dolly singing The Harper Valley PTA.

EPISODE CREDITS

Co-hosts: Virginia Sole-Smith and Corinne Fay.

Producer: Kim Baldwin.

Logo design: Deanna Lowe.

Theme Song: Farideh.

Video Editor: Elizabeth Ayiku

Audio Engineer: Tommy Harron

Follow us on social!

Virginia is on Instagram and Threads as @v_solesmith and on Bluesky at @virginiasolesmith.

Corinne is on Instagram at @selfiefay, on Bluesky at @corinnefay and on Patreon at Big Undies.

Support the Me Little Me Foundation, a virtual food pantry supporting multiply marginalized folks recovering from eating disorders.

Thanks for listening and supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism!

Indulgence Gospel segments are for paid subscribers, who also get transcripts and commenting privileges. Don't miss out — join us here!

Amy Palanjian is the creator of Yummy Toddler Food and the author of the New York Times bestselling cookbook, Dinnertime SOS. Amy has built YTF as a resource to provide reassurance and easy recipes to families with little kids. Because she knows that feeding kids is hard and our recipes (and the advice we follow) should be easy. She is an advocate for taking shortcuts in the kitchen, helping moms remember to feed themselves, and empowering kids to have agency at the table. She lives in Central PA with her three kids (and many plants).

SHOP:

Virginia's Butter: Giant coloring sheets and good markers

Corinne's Butter: Whirley Pop popcorn maker

Amy's Butter: Leaving your house via joining a gym

READ/WATCH:

Please Stop Asking Michael Pollan How to Feed Kids.

Michael Pollan on 60 Minutes reel

Michael Pollan, “We make time for the things we value” reel

The Economist picky eaters reel

https://www.patreon.com/virginiasolesmith/posts/amy-palanjian-170815324

EPISODE CREDITS

Co-hosts: Virginia Sole-Smith and Corinne Fay.

Producer: Kim Baldwin.

Logo design: Deanna Lowe.

Theme Song: Farideh.

Video Editor: Elizabeth Ayiku

Audio Engineer: Tommy Harron

Follow us on social!

Virginia is on Instagram and Threads as @v_solesmith and on Bluesky at @virginiasolesmith.

Corinne is on Instagram at @selfiefay, on Bluesky at @corinnefay and on Patreon at Big Undies.

Support the Me Little Me Foundation, a virtual food pantry supporting multiply marginalized folks recovering from eating disorders.

Thanks for listening and supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism!

Indulgence Gospel segments are for paid subscribers, who also get transcripts and commenting privileges. Don't miss out — join us here!

• FREE LISTENERS can find this episode on Apple, Spotify, YouTube or the podcast player of your choice.
• PAID SUBSCRIBERS can listen right here on Patreon, or add your member-only feed to the podcast player of your choice. Indulgence Gospel starts at the timestamp 34:44. You can find an AI-generated transcript of this segment if you’re following us on Apple or Spotify!

Jen Ponton is an actor and writer whose work explores the intersection of fatness, representation, and storytelling. Over the past 15 years, she's built a career with credits including Dietland, Not Suitable for Work, 30 Rock, Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, and the recent off-Broadway run of her solo show, Sugarcoated. She currently stars in the independent feature Resentment, where she plays a confident, sensual, whipsmart leading woman whose body is neither the punchline nor the plot.

SHOP:

Virginia's Butter: Birkenstock Boston Big Buckle clogs

Corinne's Butter: Blundstone clogs

Jen's Butter: Don't Buy What I'm Selling: On Breaking Up with Advertising and Finally Learning to Love My Whole, Fat Self by Lu Chekowsky

READ:

“Not Your Sad Fat Lady” via Jen's Substack

Jen's one-woman show Sugarcoated

https://www.patreon.com/virginiasolesmith/posts/episode-264-jen-170161722

EPISODE CREDITS

Co-hosts: Virginia Sole-Smith and Corinne Fay.

Producer: Kim Baldwin.

Logo design: Deanna Lowe.

Theme Song: Farideh.

Video Editor: Elizabeth Ayiku

Audio Engineer: Tommy Harron

Follow us on social!

Virginia is on Instagram and Threads as @v_solesmith and on Bluesky at @virginiasolesmith.

Corinne is on Instagram at @selfiefay, on Bluesky at @corinnefay and on Patreon at Big Undies.

Support the Me Little Me Foundation, a virtual food pantry supporting multiply marginalized folks recovering from eating disorders.

Thanks for listening and supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism!

Indulgence Gospel segments are for paid subscribers, who also get transcripts and commenting privileges. Don't miss out — join us here!

• FREE LISTENERS can find this episode on Apple, Spotify, YouTube or the podcast player of your choice.
• PAID SUBSCRIBERS can listen right here on Patreon, or add your member-only feed to the podcast player of your choice. Indulgence Gospel starts at the timestamp 36:34. You can find an AI-generated transcript of this segment if you’re following us on Apple or Spotify!

As a Black, infinifat, and disabled woman, Angel's lived experiences inform her work, advocacy, and commitment to building community. In addition to leading ASDAH, Angel is the founder of Sacred Space for Fat Bodies and serves on the board of the Me Little Me Foundation.

Angel previously joined us on the podcast in 2024 to talk about how ASDAH has been working to evolve the principles of Health At Every Size, or HAES, which are foundational to the fat liberation movement.

HAES is the framework that helps so many of us start to realize we can untangle weight and health, to know we can pursue health in the body we have right now — and that we deserve a healthcare system that meets us where we are, and treats us with dignity and respect. ASDAH is on the front lines of working with healthcare providers to understand that.

In order to stay operational, ASDAH needs to raise $15,000 by the end of September.

There are over 50,000 of you reading this email, and we're already 75 percent of the way there — so let's crush that goal and help ASDAH continue to do the vital work they do on behalf of fat and disabled folks everywhere — so click the link in your episode description to support ASDAH today.

Virginia's Butter: This episode of Code Switch: "Freedom" from fatness: Why GLP-1s go after Black bodies

Angel's Butters: TikTok recipes (specifically tuna and rice with furikake) and rest

Fearing the Black Body by Sabrina Strings

Ragen Chastain's newsletter

ASDAH event on September 25 called Beyond BMI

Belly of the Beast by Da'Shaun L. Harrison

https://www.patreon.com/virginiasolesmith/posts/episode-263-tk-169518176

EPISODE CREDITS

Co-hosts: Virginia Sole-Smith and Corinne Fay.

Producer: Kim Baldwin.

Logo design: Deanna Lowe.

Theme Song: Farideh.

Video Editor: Elizabeth Ayiku

Audio Engineer: Tommy Harron

Follow us on social!

Virginia is on Instagram and Threads as @v_solesmith and on Bluesky at @virginiasolesmith.

Corinne is on Instagram at @selfiefay, on Bluesky at @corinnefay and on Patreon at Big Undies.

Support the Me Little Me Foundation, a virtual food pantry supporting multiply marginalized folks recovering from eating disorders.

Thanks for listening and supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism!

Bryan Johnson is a person I did not know existed, but Corinne says is the most famous toxic man trying to live forever through diet culture and technology. Wish I knew less! But he's a major driving force in diet culture right now, so we're getting into:

⭐️ What is a "Blood Boy" and who needs one?

⭐️ Why Bryan tweets his son's nightly erection data.

⭐️ A girlfriend who has the "top 1% of all vaginas" (and how us non-elite vaginas should feel about that).

🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈

Indulgence Gospel segments are for paid subscribers, who also get transcripts and commenting privileges. Don't miss out — join us here!

If you're listening, Indulgence Gospel starts at the timestamp 39:20! You can find an AI-generated transcript of this segment if you’re following us on Apple or Spotify!

Virginia's Butter: foam roller

Corinne's Butter: Kin by Tayari Jones

The Wall Street Journal Instagram post

Bryan Johnson's "Don't Die Protocol"

Famished by Anna Rollins and Tia Leving's memoir

New York Times (gift link): He Said He Was the World’s Healthiest Man. Then Came a Stunning Diagnosis.

The Cut: Bryan Johnson Is Dating His Co-founder

Info on his girlfriend's vaginal microbiome that he tweeted.

The Wall Street Journal: Bryan Johnson’s Girlfriend Wants to Share Her Body With the World

🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈

Housekeeping note: We've changed things up a bit to solve some behind-the-scenes tech issues, so here's how to get your Burnt Toast fix:

• FREE LISTENERS can find this episode on Apple, Spotify, YouTube or the podcast player of your choice.
• PAID SUBSCRIBERS can listen right here on Patreon, or add your member-only feed to the podcast player of your choice.

https://www.patreon.com/virginiasolesmith/posts/bryan-johnson-is-168956631

EPISODE CREDITS

Co-hosts: Virginia Sole-Smith and Corinne Fay.

Producer: Kim Baldwin.

Logo design: Deanna Lowe.

Theme Song: Farideh.

Video Editor: Elizabeth Ayiku

Audio Engineer: Tommy Harron

Follow us on social!

Virginia is on Instagram and Threads as @v_solesmith and on Bluesky at @virginiasolesmith.

Corinne is on Instagram at @selfiefay, on Bluesky at @corinnefay and on Patreon at Big Undies.

Support the Me Little Me Foundation, a virtual food pantry supporting multiply marginalized folks recovering from eating disorders.

Thanks for listening and supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism!

Zoë is an internationally recognized therapist, speaker, and content creator who helps people feel more at home in their bodies. She is the founder of Body-Positive Therapy NYC, a group practice specializing in the treatment of eating disorders, and the creator of the bestselling Substack Body-Positive Home. Her work reaches more than 100,000 caregivers, educators, clinicians, and adults learning how to nurture body image resilience in the next generation while transforming their own relationships with food and their bodies along the way.

Zoë joined me to chat about:

⭐️ What you can do around the house to show your kids that your home is safe for all bodies.

⭐️ How we're preparing for back to school season—especially clothes shopping!

⭐️ A listener question from the Anti-Diet Parenting chat that sums up so many of the struggles that so many of us have as we're parenting in the abyss that is diet culture.

🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈

FREE LISTENERS can find this episode on Apple, Spotify, YouTube or the podcast player of your choice.

PAID SUBSCRIBERS can listen right here on Patreon, or add your member-only feed to the podcast player of your choice.

Paid subscribers also get transcripts, commenting privileges, and our bonus (audio only!) Indulgence Gospel segment. This week Corinne and I will be answering another listener question from the Burnt Toast Anti-Diet Parenting chat. This person needs to know what to do about a diety ex-husband. Don't miss out — join us here!

Indulgence Gospel segments get recorded too close to drop day to have transcripts — but you can find an AI-generated transcript if you’re following us on Apple or Spotify! If you're listening, Indulgence Gospel starts at the timestamp 48:00.

Virginia's Butter: Turning sidewalk chalk into paint by bashing it up with rocks and mixing it with water.

Zoë's Butter: Ina Garten's cream cheese frosting, the anticipation of a girls trip, organizing art supplies and finding a surprise treat from her daughter.

"Can we take GLP1s in a Body-Positive Home? And other balancing act questions..." (Substack)

Zoë's reel about putting a NWFMBA bag in your kids' closet.

Barefoot Contessa flag cake recipe

https://www.patreon.com/virginiasolesmith/posts/episode-261-zoe-164981251

EPISODE CREDITS

Co-hosts: Virginia Sole-Smith and Corinne Fay.

Producer: Kim Baldwin.

Logo design: Deanna Lowe.

Theme Song: Farideh.

Video Editor: Elizabeth Ayiku

Audio Engineer: Tommy Harron

Follow us on social!

Virginia is on Instagram and Threads as @v_solesmith and on Bluesky at @virginiasolesmith.

Corinne is on Instagram at @selfiefay, on Bluesky at @corinnefay and on Patreon at Big Undies.

Support the Me Little Me Foundation, a virtual food pantry supporting multiply marginalized folks recovering from eating disorders.

Thanks for listening and supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism!

Cole is an Emmy Award-winning television journalist and author of What's Eating Us: Women, Food, and the Epidemic of Body Anxiety.

Cole joined us as an eating disorder expert, and as a fellow woman in perimenopause who is reeling from all the diet culture nonsense coming for us in this stage of life. Cole will help us answer: Is menopause a diet? And we’ll also talk about everyone’s favorite menopause influencer, Dr. Mary Claire Haver. Is SHE a diet?

🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈🧈

FREE LISTENERS can find this episode on Apple, Spotify, YouTube or the podcast player of your choice.

PAID SUBSCRIBERS can listen right here on Patreon, or add your member-only feed to the podcast player of your choice.

Paid subscribers also get transcripts, commenting privileges, and our bonus (audio only!) Indulgence Gospel segment.

This week Corinne and I are answering your fat fashion questions! How to manage a wardrobe to fit weight fluctuations? Is it getting harder to shop as brands eliminate their plus size lines? Skinny jeans, yay or nay? Don't miss out — join us here!

Indulgence Gospel segments get recorded too close to drop day to have transcripts — but you can find an AI-generated transcript if you’re following us on Apple or Spotify! If you're listening, Indulgence Gospel starts at the timestamp 35:09.

Virginia's Butter: a plunge pool

Cole's Butter: her friend Catherine’s swimming pool

One last thing! You'll want to read What's Eating Us: Women, Food, and the Epidemic of Body Anxiety after hearing this conversation. If you order it from my local independent bookstore, Split Rock Books, you can take 10% off if you have also ordered a copy of my book Fat Talk from them. Go to Split Rock Books and use the code "FATTALK" at checkout.

https://www.patreon.com/virginiasolesmith/posts/is-menopause-164981198

EPISODE CREDITS

Co-hosts: Virginia Sole-Smith and Corinne Fay.

Producer: Kim Baldwin.

Logo design: Deanna Lowe.

Theme Song: Farideh.

Video Editor: Elizabeth Ayiku

Audio Engineer: Tommy Harron

Follow us on social!

Virginia is on Instagram and Threads as @v_solesmith and on Bluesky at @virginiasolesmith.

Corinne is on Instagram at @selfiefay, on Bluesky at @corinnefay and on Patreon at Big Undies.

Support the Me Little Me Foundation, a virtual food pantry supporting multiply marginalized folks recovering from eating disorders.

Thanks for listening and supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism!