Hazel sits down with climber, philosopher, and author Francis Sanzaro for a deep dive on the ego—what it is, how it shows up in climbing and life, and how Zen philosophy offers tools to loosen its grip. From ambition, status, and self-worth to the joy (and traps) of goal-setting, Francis draws on decades of climbing experience and insights from Zen and philosophy. Along the way, they explore how the ego shapes who we are and what it means to have a mind that’s truly free.

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Timestamps

00:00:10 - Intro

00:02:40 - Who is Francis Sanzaro, and how did philosophy meet climbing?

00:06:22 - What is Zen, really—religion or self-inquiry? 

00:00:10 - intro00:09:09 - What does a Zen life look like day to day?

00:12:46 - What is the ego, and how does it show up in climbing?

00:16:54 - Are we constantly trading ego like currency in social spaces?

00:21:13 - Is striving for success draining the joy from climbing?

00:24:48 - Does the ego drive our extrinsic motivations?

00:30:34 - Can we set goals without becoming attached to outcomes? Can ego be a tool for greatness or is it a trap?

00:37:38 - Are top athletes good examples—or cautionary tales?

00:44:26 - How does the climbing community shape our sense of worth?

00:49:21 - Can we protect ourselves from external judgment and status pressure?

00:56:02 - What simple practices can help us observe without reacting?

01:01:58 - Should we feel pride—or let it go like any other attachment?

01:05:51 - Does letting go of ego mean feeling less—or feeling more?

01:08:24 - Would humanity still strive for greatness without ego?

01:12:27 - How does it feel to climb with ego versus without it? What does it mean to have a mind that’s truly free?