This week, Jesuitical co-host Ashley McKinless and producer Sebastian Gomes speak to Michael W. Higgins about the spiritual master, Father Henri Nouwen (1932-1996). They explore Nouwen’s “wounded healer” approach to ministry, his brokenness and vulnerability, and his impact on contemporary Catholic thought.

In “Signs of the Times,” Ashley and Zac discuss Secretary of State Marco Rubio’s visit to Pope Leo, plans for a border wall through a pilgrimage site, a cosmetics mogul turned Catholic priest, and when customer service hung up on Pope Leo.

00:00 Who is Henri Nouwen?

2:51 Pope Leo meets Marco Rubio

7:42 A border wall through a pilgrimage site?

10:40 A cosmetics mogul turned Catholic priest

12:39 Customer service hangs up on Pope Leo

15:40 You need to know Henri Nouwen

18:31 Henri Nouwen was an enigma

25:14 Nouwen's writings

31:23 How Nouwen understood priesthood

36:54 Intimacy, celibacy and homosexuality

41:17 Nouwen, the wounded healer

44:52 Good ministry isn't performative

48:39 How Nouwen prayed

58:00 Faith sharing: overcoming performative piety

Links:

Pope Leo XIV’s First Year

Pope Leo meets with Marco Rubio amid Trump’s personal attacks

Catholic diocese fights Trump administration plan to seize pilgrimage site for border wall Cosmetics millionaire turned seminarian, he’d give fortune ‘back a million times’ for Jesus

Story of customer service agent hanging up on Leo shows pope’s ‘normal’ side

"Genius Born of Anguish: The Life and Legacy of Henri Nouwen"

2026 Henri Nouwen Conference: "Longing for Home: The Prophetic Witness of Henri Nouwen in a Wounded World"

Henri Nouwen Society

Henri Nouwen: How to (actually) pray without ceasing

The Monk and The Cripple by Henri Nouwen, 1980

Podcast Deep Dive: The first American pope—how it happened and what it means

Performative piety: Why liturgy is not a space for self-expression

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