Chain of Learning: Leadership Strategies for Transforming Culture, Developing People, and Getting Results

What does it really take to sustain a culture of continuous improvement –  through pressure for results, across generations, and into an era of AI?

In this final episode of my three-part series with John Shook, one of the most influential leaders and thinkers in the global lean community, we turned to the questions on your mind. 

Before we sat down to record, I asked listeners to submit your questions. We cover four of them specifically here, though many others were addressed in Parts 1 and 2, and together they highlight the tensions change leaders and executives face every day.

At the end, as we promised in Part 2, John shares his parting reflections and advice for all of us leading transformation to create people-centered learning cultures. It’s not just what we should stop doing, it’s what we need to continue. Starting with ourselves.

If you haven't listened to episodes 74 and 75 yet, start there first as you won’t want to miss hearing this conversation in full.

You'll Learn:

• Why leaders should be patient for results but impatient for action
• Why getting to the assumptions that underlie your principles and values is where the real work of culture change begins
• How aligning around the real problem to solve helps close the gap across generations and perspectives
• What the original intention of jidoka — separating machine work from human work — can teach us about navigating AI and keeping technology in service of people
• The real purpose of kaizen and continuous improvement

ABOUT MY GUEST:
John Shook spent eleven years with Toyota in Japan and the U.S., where he helped transfer the Toyota Production System globally. He later served as President of the Lean Enterprise Institute and Chairman of the Lean Global Network.

John is the co-author of the award-winning books Learning to See and Managing to Learn, and wrote the foreword to my book Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn. As an industrial anthropologist, he brings a perspective that connects culture, systems, and practice to bridge deep thinking with real-world application.

IMPORTANT LINKS:

• Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/76
• Connect with John Shook: lean.org/about-lei/senior-advisors-staff/john-shook/ 
• Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson 
• Subscribe to my newsletter: kbjanderson.com/newsletter
• Check out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.com
• Join us on the Japan Leadership Experience: KBJAnderson.com/japantrip 
• Purchase a copy of, “Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn,”: https://kbjanderson.com/learning-to-lead/ 

TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:

02:28 [Listener Question] How do you balance patience with action?

04:06 Avoiding solution jumping and analysis paralysis

05:20 [Listener Question] What will matter most for the next generation of organizations?

07:21 Why underlying assumptions matter more than artifacts

08:28 The deeper level of hansei and reflection

08:53 [Listener Question] How do you bridge generations without slowing improvement?

10:43 Quick PDCA vs. long-cycle learning

11:23 Aligning people around shared purpose

13:56 [Listener Question] In our age of AI, how do we stay true to jidoka's original intent, separating machine work from human work?

14:12 AI, jidoka, and protecting human work

15:23 Four questions to navigate uncertainty

16:17 Why respect for people still matters in AI

17:15 Jidoka beyond “automation with a human touch”

18:54 Curiosity, experiments, and learning with AI

19:30 The promise and risk of AI thinking for us

22:08 PDCA beyond engineering and problem solving

25:39 The purpose of kaizen is to do more kaizen

26:18 Creating conditions for people to think and grow

27:00 Shifting from leading change to creating conditions

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Lean has always been about people. We just kept reaching for the tools, without understanding the human purpose behind them.

In part two of my three-part conversation with John Shook, we go behind the scenes of Toyota's culture and leadership — sharing stories of the system-building leaders who actually made it what it is, and exploring what it really means to lead people-centered change.

John shares behind-the-scenes reflections from his time inside Toyota that you might not have heard before. Drawing on his direct experience in the company and our shared experiences living and working in Japan and globally, we explore a critical feature that is often missed: lean has always been a socio-technical system. The tools only work when we understand the deeper human purpose behind them.

In this episode, we talk about the people who actually built Toyota's culture, what John learned from his two very different bosses — including Isao Yoshino, the subject of my book “Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn” — and what happens when we lose sight of the human purpose inside the tools we practice every day.

In the previous episode, John offered a powerful reframe on lean's impact — and what question we should really be asking as change leaders. If you haven't listened to episode 74 yet, hit pause and start there first — then come back to this one to pick up where we left off.

You'll Learn:

• Inside stories of how Toyota's culture was built and the system builders behind it
• What John learned from his very different bosses inside Toyota and how their styles shaped his own leadership
• Whether you are a lean “mechanic” or “social worker” and what your answer reveals about your leadership
• Why every lean tool is already socio-technical — kanban, standardized work, A3, andon — and what we lost when we introduced them as primarily technical
• The concept of motainai — waste as a moral failure, not just a technical one — and why this matters for how you lead

ABOUT MY GUEST:
John Shook spent eleven years with Toyota in Japan and the U.S., where he helped transfer the Toyota Production System globally. He later served as President of the Lean Enterprise Institute and Chairman of the Lean Global Network.

John is the co-author of the award-winning books Learning to See and Managing to Learn, and wrote the foreword to my book Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn. As an industrial anthropologist, he brings a perspective that connects culture, systems, and practice to bridge deep thinking with real-world application.

IMPORTANT LINKS:

• Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/75
• Connect with John Shook: lean.org/about-lei/senior-advisors-staff/john-shook/ 
• Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson 
• Subscribe to my newsletter: kbjanderson.com/newsletter
• Check out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.com
• Join us on the Japan Leadership Experience: KBJAnderson.com/japantrip 
• Purchase a copy of, “Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn,”: kbjanderson.com/learning-to-lead 

TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:
03:04 Why changing culture is harder than copying systems

04:05 John’s question that still drives him: Why Toyota?

05:10 How John found his way into Toyota and NUMMI

06:15 Why Toyota endured while other Japanese companies faded

07:10 Short-term leaders vs. long-term system builders

08:15 The crisis that shaped Toyota’s future direction

10:05 John’s experience learning from very different Toyota leaders

11:15 Why conflicting feedback accelerated John’s learning

12:10 Bringing your own thinking into the A3 process

13:15 Different cultures inside Toyota and how they shaped leadership

14:10 Mr. Cho’s powerful way of teaching through stories

16:10 Katie’s lion story and breaking the telling habit

17:15 Adapting your leadership approach to the situation

19:15 Reading both the technical and social sides of change

20:20 TPS as a way to expose weaknesses and accelerate growth

21:45 Are you a lean mechanic or a lean social worker?

22:50 Identifying your leadership bias and growth edge

24:05 Why process improvement and OD teams should work together

27:10 Scientific thinking, humanism, and ethics in Toyota leadership

28:55 Eliminating waste as more than a technical exercise

30:05 Mottainai and the deeper meaning of waste

32:25 Why lean tools were always socio-technical

33:40 Kanban, standardized work, and the human side of lean

35:10 The A3 as more than a problem-solving tool

37:35 The most common failure mode in lean transformations

38:30 When lean becomes the goal instead of the means

39:30 Why lean isn’t just for executives

40:35 Improving work at every level of the organization

41:40 Why empowerment without support falls apart

42:20 The Andon system as a model for real support

43:45 Where do you need to grow: technical or human?

Please leave a review and rating of the show! Your review helps reach more listeners like you around the globe.

Has lean really failed?

That question sparked one of the most listened-to conversations in the history of this podcast — my two-part series with Jim Womack in episodes 37 and 38.

When I sat down with John Shook — one of the most influential thought leaders and practitioners in the global lean and continuous improvement community — we explored a different angle.

John's perspective isn't a rebuttal. It's a reframe. A counterpoint to the question itself.

John asks: what problem are we really trying to solve?

His answer unfolds across three episodes — the first ever three-part series on Chain of Learning. And I think it will change how you think about your own impact as a change leader.

You’ll Learn:

• Why the question "how many lean enterprises have we created?" may be leading us in the wrong direction — and what we should ask instead
• The difference between "command and control" and what John calls "command and abandon" — and which one you're more likely doing
• Why the key question in problem-solving is not "is this accurate?" but "is this useful?"
• How to recognize your span of influence and build systems at the right level that help people think, learn, and take ownership
• Why purpose → work → capability is the right sequence — and why most leaders start in the wrong place

ABOUT MY GUEST:
John Shook spent eleven years with Toyota in Japan and the U.S., where he helped transfer the Toyota Production System globally. He later served as President of the Lean Enterprise Institute and Chairman of the Lean Global Network.

John is the co-author of the award-winning books Learning to See and Managing to Learn, and wrote the foreword to my book Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn. As an industrial anthropologist, he brings a perspective that connects culture, systems, and practice to bridge deep thinking with real-world application.

IMPORTANT LINKS:

• Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/74
• Connect with John Shook: lean.org/about-lei/senior-advisors-staff/john-shook/ 
• Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson 
• Subscribe to my newsletter: kbjanderson.com/newsletter
• Check out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.com
• Join us on the Japan Leadership Experience: KBJAnderson.com/japantrip 
• Grab a copy of, “Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn,”: kbjanderson.com/learning-to-lead 

TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:
03:00 Why John Shook believes we may be asking the wrong question about lean

05:25 Why change leadership always starts with changing yourself

06:40 The tension between influencing others and trying to control them

08:15 What a people-centered learning culture actually looks like in practice

09:05 Why John avoids lean jargon and starts with the problem instead

10:00 The Toyota question that shaped John’s thinking: “What problem are you trying to solve?”

11:15 Why learning only matters when it’s grounded in the work

12:30 Toyota’s “attitude toward learning” and why it changes everything

15:05 Why leaders must create the environment for learning and problem-solving

16:00 How organizations drift into “big company disease”

17:05 Why purpose → work → capability is the sequence most leaders miss

18:15 The risk of starting culture change with leadership behaviors alone

19:20 Why focusing on the work reveals what’s really blocking change

21:00 Why John sees more “command and abandon” than command and control

23:20 Focusing on your span of influence instead of waiting for senior leaders

27:15 How every person at work already has “problem consciousness”

29:00 The surprising truth about who is most frustrated in organizations

32:15 Building systems at your level that create ownership and capability

33:20 Why modeling the behavior matters more than pushing harder

36:15 Why sustainable change starts with how you show up each day

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The way you’re leading transformation might be getting in the way of the culture you’re trying to build.

As change leaders and practitioners, we care about results. But in that focus, it’s easy to stay on the outer work—processes, metrics, systems—and underestimate the inner work – our mindset, behaviors, and relationships – that actually moves people.

Our passion can unintentionally pull us away from creating the conditions for learning, alignment, and growth, and taking ownership back by stepping in to do, to solve, and to own the work.

To explore this, I’m joined by Richard Koch, who has spent 25+ years leading change inside large, complex global organizations—from frontline improvement to system-level transformation. We’re connected by a shared belief: sustainable transformation doesn’t come from pushing harder. It comes from creating the conditions for people to be successful.

In this conversation, Richard shares what he’s learned from being inside that tension including why the way many organizations deploy improvement teams can unintentionally prevent the problem-solving ownership they’re trying to build.

You’ll Learn:

• Why daily work and small steps are where long-term change is actually built
• How separating leadership development and continuous improvement creates confusion—and weakens ownership
• Where improvement teams unintentionally take over the work and limit capability growth
• What it looks like to support leaders in owning change without stepping in to solve it
• Why the leader must be at the center of transformation—and what changes when that responsibility is held

ABOUT MY GUEST:

Richard H. Koch is Managing Director of Serofia and works with leaders who want to create meaningful progress for people, performance, and the future they are helping to shape. Drawing on more than 25 years of international experience across strategy, leadership, operational excellence, innovation, and transformation, he brings together coaching, training, and consulting in a way that is both human and practical. His approach is grounded in systems thinking, deep listening, and helping leaders turn strategic ambition into real progress through small steps and real work.

IMPORTANT LINKS:

• Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/73
• Connect with Richard Koch: linkedin.com/in/richardkoch88
• Learn more about Serofia: serofia.com
• Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson 
• Subscribe to my newsletter: kbjanderson.com/newsletter
• Check out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.com

TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:

03:44 Importance of seeing potential in every person

06:10 How seemingly insignificant actions ripple through teams
08:37 Why separating leadership and improvement work breaks progress
09:14 The Inner System vs. Outer System framework and how it drives change
12:19 The negative effect with silos that keeps you away from  focusing on the work and the leader

15:14 Why forcing change undermines ownership

17:32 The mindset shift for change leaders and internal consultants
19:07 Why daily work is the path to long-term transformation
21:22 When improvement work splits into process and leadership, change stops sticking
23:19 Why direct observation and connection matter
25:23 Challenge of relying on experts to help solve problems
28:27 How to build sustainability instead of dependency
29:05 Navigating trust, timing, and influence with senior leaders
32:25 Leading with empathy and understanding the pressure leaders are under

33:52 Value of having the right outside partner to achieve goals

35:50 Seeing a leader move from sponsor to truly owning and enabling change

39:36 Importance of staying curious and creating space for ideas and growth
41:00 Taking small steps to make big changes

43:00 The essence of small steps, belief in people, and leading with heart to create the conditions for change

Please leave a review and rating of the show! Your review helps reach more listeners like you around the globe.

The messy middle is part of the learning process.

It’s the point where what worked before no longer fully fits—but what comes next is not yet clear.
Where your thinking is still forming, your ideas are evolving, and the answer has not fully emerged.

And while it can feel uncertain, this is often where the deepest continuous learning happens.

In this behind-the-scenes bonus episode on Chain of Learning, I share a live conversation with, Betsy Jordyn, my business coach and strategic thinking partner, recorded on the final day of a working retreat earlier this month. 

We pull back the curtains and invite you into our unscripted reflections from working through the messy middle of shaping my next book—and the leadership (and life) lessons that continue to emerge through the process.

Tune in to hear the real-time learning, reflection, and refinement happening as I shape the ideas behind my next book.

You’ll learn:

• Why the messy middle is often a necessary part of continuous learning, growth, and effective change leadership
• How to recognize when forcing clarity too early limits stronger thinking from emerging
• What it looks like to let ideas evolve instead of defending what came before
• How collaboration and outside perspective sharpen your judgment and deepen your thinking
• Why modeling your own learning process creates stronger conditions for learning in others
• How to stay engaged in uncertainty without rushing to jumping to answers too quickly

ABOUT MY GUEST:

Betsy Jordyn is the founder and CEO of Betsy Jordyn International, a strategic branding firm that helps transformational consultants and coaches refine their messaging, positioning, and offers to accelerate their success and amplify their impact. She is also the host of the Consulting Matters podcast and a sought-after speaker and trainer on brand strategy, executive influence, and the business of transformation.

Will you help me?
I have a quick favor to ask. I’m conducting research for my next book and would love to get your insights on people-centered, learning organizations and the leadership that creates them. The survey takes just 5 to 10 minutes and your responses will directly shape the book and a future Chain of Learning podcast episode.
-> Take the Survey here, open through May 22.

IMPORTANT LINKS:

• Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/72
• Connect with Betsy Jordyn: linkedin.com/in/betsy-jordyn
• Listen to Betsy’s Podcast, Consulting Matters: betsyjordyn.com/podcasts/consulting-matters 
• Check out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.com
• Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson 
• Download my FREE KATALYST™ Change Leader Self-Assessment: KBJAnderson.com/katalyst
• Subscribe to my newsletter: kbjanderson.com/newsletter 
• Take the People-Centered Leadership Survey

TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:

01:16 The hidden reality of creativity and why books are written multiple times
02:39 What the messy middle feels like and why this stage matters more than we think
05:04 Re-centering leadership on what’s within your control in a world of constant change
06:00 Why influence isn’t about forcing change, but creating conditions for growth
08:12 Reframing resistance and what people actually need to move forward
10:06 How to keep evolving instead of staying stuck in old ways of thinking
12:26 The process of writing a book and getting clarity on the what the book is about
16:04 Why growth often requires releasing what once worked
17:09 Benefits of collaborating in person vs. using AI as a thinking partner
18:07 Why learning can’t be forced, but we need to allow space for insight
22:07 The concept of omotenashi and looking at a lens of caring from a human angle
24:14 The meaning of Intention = Heart + Direction to create the conditions for learning
29:15 What changes when you respect others’ agency instead of driving direction
32:19 How to have empathy and not push your agenda when leaders are not “bought in”
33:01 Why your expertise can become a barrier to connection and clarity
35:46 How different perspectives reveal whether your message actually lands
38:08 Moving beyond the lingo to prevent barriers
43:27 Why growth requires releasing identities, ideas, and ways of working

Please leave a review and rating of the show! Your review helps reach more listeners like you around the globe.

Caring becomes carrying.

It happens so naturally we rarely notice it. Someone brings us a problem. We care. We want to help. And somewhere in that desire to help, without meaning to, we take on the weight of solving it ourselves.

That shift is subtle. And costly.

Because the moment you take ownership of the thinking, you take away the very capability you're trying to build.

In this episode, I explore a critical shift in change leadership: how to hold the thinking process so others can solve their own problems — without taking on their work as your own.

Your value as a leader isn't in having the answer. It's in creating the conditions where others can think, test, and learn. When you want to create empowered problem-solving in your organization, stepping back is stepping up.

You'll Learn:

• How to notice when you've shifted from supporting someone's thinking to carrying their problem
• Why redirecting your focus from the problem to the person working through it changes everything about how you coach
• How to use a simple problem solving structure (Target, Actual, Gap) to anchor your questions and keep ownership where it belongs
• How to stay present to how someone is thinking instead of jumping ahead to solutions
• How to choose intentionally when to step in with direction — and when to step back to build capability

IMPORTANT LINKS:

• Full episode show notes with links to other podcast episodes and resources: ChainOfLearning.com/71 
• Check out my website for resources and ways to work with me KBJAnderson.com
• Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson
• Download my free KATALYST™ Change Leader Self-Assessment: KBJAnderson.com/katalyst 

TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:

00:40 The subtle shift from caring to carrying problem solving
03:35 Realization of owning the process of solving the problem
04:39 What gets in the way of intentions to be helpful

05:27 Why problem solving and problem solving coaching are two different skills
05:50 How to stay focused on the thinking process and keep from sliding back into the problem itself
06:42 How to anchor questions around a structured problem solving flow
08:11 The mantra, “Target, Actual gap, Please explain,” to identify the real problem before jumping to solutions
09:13 Benefit of assigning a problem for a team member to solve

10:56 The identity shift from having all the answers to holding the process
12:28 One way to notice if you have a telling habit
14:41 Why you should avoid defaulting to giving the answer and ask questions to understand the problem first
16:59 The meaning of intention = heart + direction to coach with the right motives
17:21 Three steps to coach with intention:
17:25 [ONE] Take an intention pause
17:45 [TWO] Choose the behaviors that align with that impact
18:08 [THREE] Reflect and learn your way forward

19:15 Positive result from leading by asking questions that helped team gain confidence
21:41 Three reflection questions before you go into your next coaching conversation

Please leave a review and rating of the show! Your review helps reach more listeners like you around the globe.

What happens when leaders make decisions further and further away from the work itself?

In a world of AI, automated dashboards, and remote work, it’s easy to manage representations of work instead of understanding what’s actually happening for the people who do it.

Yet, when leaders rely on data rather than facts, they often end up solving the wrong problems, even with the best intentions.

In this episode of Chain of Learning, I'm joined by Nigel Thurlow, consultant, systems thinker, and Toyota's first-ever Chief of Agile, to explore how better decisions come from understanding how the system actually operates. And that understanding is built by engaging with the people doing the work.

When you stay connected, you don't just get better information. You see how work actually flows, where problems emerge, and what's getting in the way. You build trust, surface issues earlier, and make it easier for people to think and solve problems together.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• Why there's a critical difference between delegation and empowerment — and why one leaves people unable to act
• How to distinguish between data and facts, and why going to see conditions firsthand changes the decisions you make
• What "going to gemba" looks like in a digital or remote environment when there's no factory floor to walk
• Why making work visible creates the conditions for people to surface problems,  before they compound
• Why AI amplifies what's already there — and why fixing the underlying system comes first

ABOUT MY GUEST: Nigel Thurlow is CEO of The Flow Consortium and the creator of Scrum the Toyota Way. He spent over 20 years at Toyota, including serving as the first Chief of Agile at Toyota Connected. He is co-author of The Flow System and The Flow System Playbook, and his work focuses on improving decision-making in complex environments.

IMPORTANT LINKS:

• Full episode show notes with links to other podcast episodes and resources: ChainOfLearning.com/70 
• Check out my website for resources and ways to work with me KBJAnderson.com
• Connect with Nigel Thurlow: linkedin.com/in/nigelthurlow
• Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson
• Download my free KATALYST™ Change Leader Self-Assessment: KBJAnderson.com/katalyst  

TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:

03:19 Effects of being detached from the work when working remotely
04:17 Difference between delegation and empowerment when assigning work to others
05:35 Fear of those who are delegated to of failing or making the wrong decision
07:15 What it means to empower someone and transfer the ownership of that decision to someone else

09:21 How to go to gemba and go where the work is done
10:07 The benefits of "presenteeism" and being present where the work is performed
11:46 Benefits of collaborating in person vs. a digital environment to make better decision
13:02 Nigel’s experience in working in a frozen food manufacturer and going out to the line to understand the pain workers experienced
15:42 Why you need to understand how work gets done to improve throughput and quality of work
16:39 Benefits of hiring an external or internal consultant to understand the problems that need solving
19:31 The effects of companies investing in tools and AI and realizing it doesn’t help with problem solving
21:30 How to avoid the leadership decision problem and get all the facts to avoid consequences
24:39 Technique known as “sense making” to understand the temperament and behaviors in the environment to reveal dark constraints
26:09 The difference between US and Toyota’s corporate culture in incentivizing leaders to be part of a system

29:10 How to help workers make changes that need to be made visible to senior leaders
35:04 Enabling others to communicate with leaders to improve decision making
37:14 Why badly designed systems and not the workforce are the cause of problems
38:25 Why you can’t implement AI with a broken system

40:31 The possible future of AI and how it can affect our decision making
43:37 Importance of embracing the human connection to better communicate and make better decisions

47:24 Reflect on where your decisions may be happening too far from the work

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You're being told to use AI. But which tool you actually need to do your best work?

Leaders and change practitioners everywhere feel the same pressures right now — more meetings, more information, more mandates to adopt AI — with less time to think and less clarity about where to start. And most of the advice begins in the wrong place: with the tool.

In this episode of Chain of Learning, I talk with Barry O'Reilly, bestselling author of Unlearn and Lean Enterprise, and author of the new book Artificial Organizations, about why the real opportunity with AI isn't automation. It's better judgment.

Barry shares examples from his work with Fortune 500 executives who are successfully pairing human instinct with machine insight — not by adopting every new tool, but by understanding how they work, where judgment matters most, and what needs to be unlearned along the way. 

It's about letting go of the belief that your expertise is your competitive advantage, and starting to see AI not as a replacement, but as a thinking partner that can sharpen your clarity, your presence, and your preparation.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• Why starting with the tool is the wrong place to start — and what to do instead
• How to identify your natural traits and highest-leverage tasks as the foundation for working with AI
• The unlearning required to shift from relying on instinct alone to combining human judgment with machine insight
• How successful leaders are using AI to pressure-test ideas and show up more prepared and present
• Why the skills that make you more effective with AI are the same skills that make you more influential with people

Where does judgment matter most in your role right now — and what might you need to unlearn to create space for a better way of working?

ABOUT MY GUEST: Barry O'Reilly is the bestselling author of Unlearn and co-author of Lean Enterprise. He hosts the Unlearn Podcast and is co-founder of Nobody Studios, an AI-driven venture studio. His newest book, Artificial Organizations, is a practical guide for leaders ready to combine human and machine intelligence to make better decisions faster.

Barry O’Reilly is also giving away a copy of Artificial Organizations to THREE lucky winners!
Artificial Organizations explores how leaders can combine human judgment with AI to make better decisions in an increasingly complex world. Instead of focusing on AI tools, the book shows how organizations must redesign how leaders think, work, and make decisions so technology enhances clarity rather than amplifies confusion. It presents a practical leadership system for using AI as a thinking partner to improve judgment, reduce decision overload, and lead more effectively.
Register now to enter the giveaway!

IMPORTANT LINKS:

• Full episode show notes with links to other podcast episodes and resources: ChainOfLearning.com/69 
• Check out my website for resources and ways to work with me KBJAnderson.com
• Connect with Barry O’Reilly: linkedin.com/in/barryoreilly 
• Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson
• Check out Barry O’Reilly’s book, Artificial Organizations: artificialorganizations.com 
• Subscribe to my newsletter: kbjanderson.com/newsletter 
• Learn more about my coaching, trusted advisor partnerships, and leadership learning experiences: [email protected] 

RELATED LINKS:

• Unlearn Podcast | Intentional Leadership with Katie Anderson
• Episode 59 | Get Better at Getting Better: Leveraging AI to Elevate Human Learning with Nathen Harvey

TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:

02:28 Where to start on adopting AI
05:04 Importance of understanding natural traits and strengths before looking into AI tools
07:12 Defining the problem first before looking for the tool to close the gap
08:17 Why some may see AI as a deflection tool
09:02 How to use AI for synthesizing data rather than rudimentary tasks
12:28 Why judgment is the leadership advantage and leveraging AI to make better judgment
12:38 Using decision velocity to improve decision making
13:35 Decision advantage in synthesizing data to make a decision
14:35 The difference between AI and human strengths in decision making
16:26 Unlearning how you work to make progress
19:32 Why human thinking plus machine equals a better outcome
20:28 Examples of how to use AI to be the best business and thinking partner
24:46 Importance of asking the right questions when brainstorming with AI
26:06 The limitations of AI and knowing how to use it to your advantage
30:18 How technology can help us be make a bigger impact
33:12 The loss of psychological safety when implementing AI and unlearning this fear
35:35 Better results when teams collaborate with AI vs. doing it independently
36:06 Shifting from control based learning mindset to influence based learning mindset for continuous improvement
37:54 Implementing AI to be the most effective in your organization
40:34 How to start building an AI stack knowing your natural traits, one or two tasks, and then experimenting with an AI tool
42:54 The skills that make us more effective with machines to increase influence
43:16 Questions for reflection on how to implement AI in your organization

Please leave a review and rating of the show! Your review helps reach more listeners like you around the globe.

What changes when leaders stop learning alone—and start learning together?

Leadership development often focuses on individual insight: reading, listening, reflecting. But some of the most meaningful shifts in leadership don’t happen that way.

They happen when leadership teams go see, ask questions, and reflect together.

That shared experience becomes a catalyst—aligning leaders around a new way of seeing their organization, supporting one another in practicing new behaviors, and driving lasting transformation.

In this episode of Chain of Learning, you’ll learn why immersive experiences can transform how leadership teams align, learn, and develop—and why learning in context often leads to change that lasts.

Drawing on examples from my Japan Leadership Experience, we look at what happens when leadership teams step away from the day-to-day pressures of their roles and create space to learn and reflect in new ways.

Shared experiences give leadership teams something powerful: a common reference point for how they want to lead and improve—accelerating organizational transformation.

In this episode, we explore how to:

• Shift from learning as an individual activity to learning as a leadership team practice
• Create alignment by seeing and reflecting on the same things
• Move from “What did I learn?” to “What are we seeing differently?”
• Turn shared insights into new leadership behaviors back at work
• Understand why immersion and context matter when developing people-centered leadership

IMPORTANT LINKS:

• Full episode show notes with links to other podcast episodes and resources: ChainOfLearning.com/67 
• Check out my website for resources and ways to work with me KBJAnderson.com
• Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson
• Download my free KATALYST™ Change Leader Self-Assessment: KBJAnderson.com/katalyst 
• Learn more about my Japan Leadership Experience: kbjanderson.com/japantrip

RELATED EPISODES:

• Episode 25 | Getting Results Through the Power of Serious Leadership with Kecia Kelly and Amy Chaumeton
• Episode 20 | How to Coach Executives and Influence Change with Brad Toussaint
• Episode 48 | Make Leadership Meaningful: From Tools to Purposeful Impact with Josef Procházka
• Episode 67 | Why Lifelong Learning Is the Foundation of Influence (and Can Limit Your Impact)
• Episode 4 | Leading for Impact: The Power of Being Over Doing
• Episode 17 | Leading Change from the Middle with Pennie Saum

TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:

1:30 The gap between inspiration and the system you return to

2:46  Three conditions that most leadership development is missing.

4:13 The fundamental difference when others are learning beside you vs. learning alone
4:47 How Jim, Healthcare COO,  accelerated transformation by inviting his team on the Japan Leadership Experience
6:49 Transformations that past Japan Leadership Experience have experienced in accelerated learning and sustaining excellence in their organization
10:34 Unlocking shoshin - the beginner’s mind - through immersive experiences
12:04 The benefits of observing Japan employees and companies in person
14:22 The depth of connection that forms when you learn together
16:43 Why shared learning is important for leaders to make changes that sticks
18:55 The cultural impact of the Japan Leadership Experience
21:31 The deepest leadership changes that come from shared learning and shared leadership

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What if your approach to learning is actually limiting your influence as a change leader?

Many of us pride ourselves on being lifelong learners. We read, earn certifications, study new tools, and go deep into our methodology. That depth is a strength. But as your responsibility grows—from running projects to shaping transformation—what’s required of you changes.

At some point, going deeper into your method or functional expertise is no longer enough. Your role shifts from applying tools to enabling leaders to see the whole system, define the real problem before choosing an approach.

In this episode of Chain of Learning, I help you learn how to move from learning as accumulation to learning as adaptable influence.

As your scope expands, you’re no longer just responsible for executing well. You’re responsible for how others think, decide, and take ownership. That requires more than expertise. It requires the ability to step back, question the form, and respond to what the situation truly calls for.

We often define learning as going deeper into an area of expertise, but what can be missing is a shift toward adaptability and broader perspective.

A learning and growth mindset is the foundation for enabling a learning organization—yet if you get attached to one form or method, it can constrain your influence.

In this episode, you’ll explore how to:

• Describe the impact you create tools or jargon
• Move from Shuhari—rigidly following a method to adapting based on context
• Practice beginner’s mind—Shoshin, even when you’re the expert
• Identify when you’ve fallen into the Doer Trap—and choose to develop others instead
• Notice when you’re following the form in situations that call for flexibility

If you want to build a learning organization, your own learning approach must evolve first. It’s not just what you know, but how you show up.

IMPORTANT LINKS:

• Full episode show notes with links to other podcast episodes and resources: ChainOfLearning.com/67 
• Check out my website for resources and ways to work with me KBJAnderson.com
• Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson
• Download my free KATALYST™ Change Leader Self-Assessment: KBJAnderson.com/katalyst 
• Learn more about my Japan Leadership Experience: kbjanderson.com/japantrip

RELATED EPISODES:

• Episode 65 | From Learning to Impact: Turn Insight into Leadership Action
• Episode 9 | The 8 Essential Skills to Become a Transformational Change Katalyst™
• Episode 15 | 5 Steps to Revitalize Lifelong Learning
• Episode 27 | 3 Practices to Become a Skillful Facilitator
• Episode 42 | Do the Right Thing: Japanese Management Masterclass Part 1 with Tim Wolput
• Episode 52 | What You Love About Lean and Operational Excellence — And Your #1 Frustration: How to Get Executive Buy-in

TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:

00:40 The Katalyst model revision and why lifelong learning was removed as a standalone competency

03:24 Why learning isn't what distinguishes your influence. It's what makes influence possible
05:07 What it means to be a lifelong learning enthusiast

06:52 Three questions every change leader should be able to answer without jargon

09:22 What 75 leaders revealed in a survey and the lesson underneath it
10:31 The concept of Shu Ha Ri that shapes how you develop and learn:
11:13 [SHU] following the form

11:25 [HA] where you begin to adapt

11:35 [RI] Transcending the form entirely

12:20 Five Toyota Kata Coaching questions developed by Mike Roth that requires learning and unlearning to develop, grow, and improve
15:05 The concept of Shoshin and clearing what's in the way

16:04 Katie's personal confession about her own telling habit and what modeling the way actually looks like in practice
17:35 The "doer trap" and why getting leadership buy-in starts with us
20:39 What lifelong learning really means and why it’s a being practice

21:01 Three practices to try this week to create more impact

Please leave a review and rating of the show! Your review helps reach more listeners like you around the globe.