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1:51 Susan’s new book, Overreach: How China Derailed Its Peaceful Rise 7:28 China’s turn to more assertive policies in 2007 15:30 The well-intentioned reform that produced big authoritarian consequences 25:20 How public opinion influences autocratic leaders 31:53 Xi Jinping’s purge of suspect officials 41:52 Does Beijing feel threatened by America? 48:20 Heading to Overtime

Robert Wright (Bloggingheads.tv, The Evolution of God, Nonzero, Why Buddhism Is True) and Susan Shirk (University of California San Diego, Overreach). Recorded October 23, 2023.

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