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Michael Tracey joins me to talk about the Charlie Kirk memorial service. The conversation somehow devolves into us disagreeing strongly on which parts of the Christian Nationalist spectacle on display were strangest. Michael’s inner new atheist comes out, as we play clips from Erika Kirk, RFK, Pete Hegseth, and others. He notes how out of place this kind of overt sectarianism would have been in any previous administration. I argue that this is one of the signifiers of the right leaning into identitarianism, of which strict restrictionism and all the talk we’re getting about “Heritage Americans” are a part.

One doesn’t have to be a Christian or even believe in God to be a member of the movement in good standing; it’s just about fighting the left. But fighting them on what? Consider how the second Trump administration has completely lost interest in abortion, which has traditionally been the main issue for the Christian Right. Is trans in women’s sports worth all this apocalyptic rhetoric? The dangers of crime in inner cities most Republicans don’t live anywhere near? The conversation also touches on the future of the conservative movement, and whether conspiracy theories about Charlie Kirk’s death are going to be a fixture on the right going forward.