Culture Changers with Allison Hare

Is America one giant cult? That's the question I put to journalist Jane Borden, author of Cults Like Us: Why Doomsday Thinking Drives America. Jane fell into this topic while reporting on cults for Vanity Fair, when she started seeing the same dynamics in American culture, pop culture and politics. Her conclusion: America was founded by groups that look a lot like cults. The Puritans and Pilgrims were high-control doomsday groups, and their ideas never went away. They just went secular.

We dig into the "chosen people" mindset and why it always comes paired with feeling persecuted, why doomsday thinking leaves no room for democracy, and what evolution tells us about us-versus-them thinking (spoiler: our real superpower is cooperation). Jane explains the grace-nature divide, why some people actually want Armageddon, and why conspiracy theories "aren't always wrong, they're just always pointing at the wrong people."

Then it gets wild. The American Monomyth hiding in every Western, superhero and disaster movie. The UFO doomsday cult that gave us the term "cognitive dissonance." John Humphrey Noyes, who believed Jesus was made of electricity and founded the community that became the Oneida silverware company, and the abuse behind that history that rarely gets told. We talk eugenics, pronatalism, and why powerful men want to replicate themselves.

Jane closes with something I didn't expect: she doesn't believe evil exists. She believes in desperation, vulnerability and bad choices, and that fear dissolves through conversation with the very people we fear. This one gave me hope.

KEY TOPICS

- How the Puritans and Pilgrims shaped American culture

- Chosen people, chosen nation, and persecution as two sides of one coin

- Why cults and doomsday thinking are "the death of democracy"

- Us vs. them, evolution, and cooperation as our secret to success

- The grace-nature divide and runaway extraction

- Why some people want Armageddon

- Conspiracy theories: Mankind United, the New World Order, and the kernel of truth

- Scapegoats and the grievance narrative

- The American Monomyth and the Book of Revelation

- Normative dissonance vs. cognitive dissonance (and the Seekers)

- Perfectionism, the Social Gospel, and the Civil War as a doomsday project

- John Humphrey Noyes and the Oneida Community

- Eugenics, Buck v. Bell and 67,000 forced sterilizations

- Income inequality as the crisis fueling cult-like thinking

- Why Jane doesn't believe evil exists

FIND JANE BORDEN

- Book: Cults Like Us, available everywhere. 

- Instagram and TikTok

WORK WITH ME

I'm a podcast and brand strategist. If you want to use your voice as a force for good and a podcast is your platform, or you already have one that isn't doing what you want, book a free clarity call at https://AllisonHare.com/freecall

RESOURCES (U.S.)

- RAINN National Sexual Assault Hotline: 800-656-HOPE (4673), hotline.rainn.org

- Childhelp National Child Abuse Hotline: 1-800-422-4453

- Outside the U.S., contact your local crisis services.

Opinions expressed by guests are their own.

Be sure to rate, review, and follow this podcast on your player and also, connect with me IRL for more goodness and life-changing stuff.

• Schedule a FREE podcast clarity call with me - Your future audience is out there. Talk to them!
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Content note: This episode discusses childhood abuse, sexual assault and family estrangement. If you or someone you know needs support, resources are at the bottom of these notes.

Church is always supposed to be the safest place you could possibly go, right? Today I sit down with Stella McCormick, author of Deliver Us From Mother: Faith, Fear, and the Family Cult That Broke Me, to talk about growing up in what Stella calls an evangelical, fundamentalist, Christian single-family cult led by her mother.

Stella explains a single-family cult. A cult doesn't need a compound or a famous leader. It can be one family, even one couple, held together by coercive control, isolation, financial control and thought control. She walks through what that looked like in her home as one of nine children, homeschooled, parentified, and raised on mandatory obedience in the orbit of the Duggars and Bill Gothard's IBLP.

She talks about leaving at 20 by joining the Navy, why she first saw the world outside as "the ultimate test of my faith," and how a boot-camp friendship started to crack the story she'd been told. After an assault in the service and a trial that ended in a not-guilty verdict, therapy in Kuwait helped her name what she'd lived through, with her older sister doing the same work from home.

Stella then describes calling Child Protective Services on her own parents, how her family told the story afterward, what happened for the children involved, and why she now says: "I did not destroy my family. I simply told somebody about it." They close with going no contact, healing that never fully ends, and the freedom of life after deconstruction.

This is one of the bravest conversations I’ve had on this show. I can’t wait for you to hear it. 

KEY TOPICS

- Why Stella plans not to take future children to church until they can think critically

- What a single-family cult is, and how it differs from a compound or congregation

- The Duggars, IBLP, Bill Gothard and "head of household" teaching

- Mandatory obedience, parentification and growing up in a very large homeschool family

- James Dobson's "strong-willed child" and being told you were born with more sin

- The sinner's prayer on repeat: what religious guilt does to a child

- Leaving physically vs. leaving psychologically

- Learning from people you were taught to fear

- Victim-blaming, and the kind of parent Stella wants to be

- Therapy, the word "abused," and the sister who walked the path with her

- The pregnancy rumor and the fear that your mother is all-powerful

- Calling CPS, the court outcome, and the family's version of events

- Allison's seven characteristics of cult dynamics (charismatic authoritarian leader, coercive control, a family narrative, forced conformity, intense secrecy, manipulation through guilt and fear, limited contact with the outside world)

- No contact, healing and untangling truth from "perceived truth"

FIND STELLA McCORMICK

- Book: Deliver Us From Mother: https://link.amazon/B0dEjexg0

- TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@stella_mccormick

- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/stellamc_author/

WORK WITH ME

I'm a podcast and brand strategist. If you want to use your voice as a force for good and a podcast is your platform, or you already have one that isn't doing what you want, book a free clarity call at https://AllisonHare.com/freecall

RESOURCES (U.S.)

- RAINN National Sexual Assault Hotline: 800-656-HOPE (4673), free, confidential, 24/7; chat at hotline.rainn.org

- Childhelp National Child Abuse Hotline: 1-800-422-4453

- 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline: call or text 988

- Outside the U.S., contact your local emergency or crisis services.

Stella's story is her own account of her experience. Opinions expressed by guests are their own.
 

Be sure to rate, review, and follow this podcast on your player and also, connect with me IRL for more goodness and life-changing stuff.

• Schedule a FREE podcast clarity call with me - Your future audience is out there. Talk to them!
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• Feedback and Contact:: [email protected]

I just walked out of two of the buzziest documentaries around, You Can See Everything (Elizabeth Holmes, co-directed by Nathan Fielder and Lance Oppenheim) and the Musk documentary, and I can't stop thinking about them. Is it required to blur the lines of reality and fiction to be a successful innovator? This one has spoilers, so use the timestamps below to skip ahead.

IN THIS EPISODE

• Why a comedian known for blurring reality and fiction was the surprising choice to film Elizabeth Holmes

• The Theranos story and the 2% funding gap for female founders

• "It's not fraud. It failed. All inventors fail." Where that argument holds and where it breaks

• Why we love the "crazy until it works" hero, from Holmes to Musk

• The Amanda Seyfried twist and why this film may change what a documentary is

• My verdict: 100% worth the hype

*SPOILER GUIDE*

Light spoilers throughout. Bigger ones at 11:15 (Musk), 22:26, 23:25, 26:33 and 30:52.

MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

You Can See Everything (Nathan Fielder, Lance Oppenheim) · the Musk documentary · Theranos · The Dropout (Amanda Seyfried) · Nathan for You · Don't Look Up (Adam McKay) · Jerrod Carmichael's Rothaniel · Bo Burnham's Inside · Abbott and Costello's "Who's on First" · Bell Labs · Bryan Johnson
 

PULL QUOTES

"Is it required to blur the lines of reality and fiction in order to be a successful innovator?" (0:00)

"You're crazy until it works." (4:05)

"It's not fraud. It failed. All inventors fail." (14:39)
 

WORK WITH ME

I'm a podcast and brand strategist. If you want to use your voice as a force for good, book a free podcast clarity call with me: https://AllisonHare.com/freecall

TIMESTAMPS:

0:00 Do inventors have to be delusional?

0:30 Welcome to Culture Changers (and the Elizabeth Holmes turtleneck)

1:14 You Can See Everything: Nathan Fielder's genre-bending documentary

2:20 Pushing the genre: Don't Look Up, Jerrod Carmichael, Bo Burnham

3:20 Elizabeth Holmes vs. Elon Musk: "crazy until it works"

4:13 The Theranos story: the pinprick test, the fraud, the 11 years

5:44 A 19-year-old founder and the 2% funding gap

7:03 Holmes asks Nathan Fielder to film her last 34 days

7:27 Why Nathan Fielder? From Nathan for You to this

9:09 Will the Musk documentary even come out? (it's four hours)

9:49 Elon's bravado and the sleight of hand

10:39 Why we love the "crazy until it works" hero

11:15 Musk's self-driving promise and its cost (spoiler)

12:30 "I didn't do anything wrong": Holmes vs. Fielder

13:44 Why I left sympathetic: "It's not fraud, it failed"

14:51 Nathan Fielder as our stand-in (and Who's on First)

16:00 Smoke and mirrors: why investors bought in

16:39 Locking eyes: Holmes on love, truth and "nothing to hide"

17:43 Her parents, Billy Evans and Sunny Balwani: where did it go wrong?

20:31 Billy Evans, two years later: who controls the narrative?

22:26 The twist: Amanda Seyfried joins the documentary (spoilers)

23:25 Who profits from Holmes's story? (major spoilers)

26:33 Amanda Seyfried as the audience's stand-in (spoilers)

27:53 Watching it with a theater full of Nathan Fielder fans

28:29 Am I rooting for her because I'm a feminist?

29:09 Does a "different brain" get a pass? Holmes, Musk, Bryan Johnson

30:24 Will this change documentaries? Truth vs. bias

30:52 My verdict: 100% worth the hype (ending twist: spoiler)

31:43 Oscar buzz and final thoughts

32:34 Work with Allison: free podcast clarity call

Be sure to rate, review, and follow this podcast on your player and also, connect with me IRL for more goodness and life-changing stuff.

• Schedule a FREE podcast clarity call with me - Your future audience is out there. Talk to them!
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Eric Jorgenson wrote The Book of Elon, built entirely from Elon Musk’s own words. Allison asks the question everyone argues about: is Elon the greatest entrepreneur who ever lived? Eric thinks so, with an asterisk. They get into risk, speed, fear, the “boss from hell” question, and why Eric believes 99.9% of organizations err on the side of too slow or too soft. They also cover Elon’s politics and critics, what people get wrong about him, and why Eric gives the book away for free.

Key takeaways

• Eric’s biggest surprise was how much risk Elon takes. Elon rarely covers his downside and usually swings for the fences.
• Eric reframes the “boss from hell” label as empathy at the level of the mission, not the individual.
• Elon treats time as the one true currency. Moving a milestone up compounds for years.
• Elon reads military history and biographies, not business books. Eric says he operates like a field general.
• On fear, Elon says he feels it. He does it anyway if the mission is important enough.
• Eric says the odds of Tesla and SpaceX succeeding were each under 10%. Together that’s about 1%, and Elon put in everything he had to save both.
• Elon attacks the biggest problem first. He meets on it daily and cancels the meeting once it’s solved.
• Go to the problem in person. Eric calls it “much easier to ignore somebody on the phone than in person.”
• Politics has made Elon a lightning rod. Eric says it’s hard to find solid factual ground to stand on and invites people to look past the headline level.

Quotes

• “If the mission is important enough, you feel the fear and you do it anyway.” (Eric, quoting Elon)
• “SpaceX specializes in turning the impossible into the merely late.” (Eric, quoting Elon)
• “It’s empathy at the level of the mission or the organization, not empathy at the level of the individual.” (Eric)
• “I’m grateful to live in America through the age of Elon.” (Eric)

Mentioned in this episode

• The Book of Elon by Eric Jorgenson: free digital copy at https://elonmuskbook.org
• Eric’s site and podcast: ejorgenson.com

Connect: Eric on X at @ericjorgenson. 

Allison’s free call: https://www.allisonhare.com/freecall

Be sure to rate, review, and follow this podcast on your player and also, connect with me IRL for more goodness and life-changing stuff.

• Schedule a FREE podcast clarity call with me - Your future audience is out there. Talk to them!
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Political midterms are fun, aren't they? You can’t escape the TV ads that dominate your favorite streaming shows on Hulu and Max. Your FB looks like your old high school buddies are in a keyboard war with each other. And your nervous system is 100% fried eggs. I mean, do these ads work? What is it like to work in politics when the entire world seems to be on fire and shouting for attention from every angle?

Michelle Coyle told me those ads are the single most effective tool a campaign has. Michelle runs the Political Business Institute, coaching the consultants who build the campaigns flooding your feed right now, and she's spent years inside both parties. We get into why negative ads actually move votes, how influencer marketing became a bigger campaign weapon than a TV ad buy, why corporate money in politics is messier than either side wants to admit, and how an AI can legally put words in a candidate's mouth they never said in a tone they never used. Seven weeks out from the midterms, send this to your group chat.

Notable timestamps:
02:44 Meet Michelle Coyle
05:58 Why negative ads work, and why the industry calls them "contrast"
07:07 Where campaign ad money is actually moving
09:47 What a political consultant does, and who hires Michelle
11:06 Seven weeks to Election Day, then everything stops cold
21:37 The loudest people online don't represent how people actually vote
23:11 Is Elon Musk buying the midterms
26:33 Never discount a pissed off populace
39:57 AI can legally put words in a candidate's mouth
45:12 What Republicans really say about Trump behind closed doors

Links and resources: 

Website: www.politicalbusinessinstitute.com

Instagram: https://instagram.com/michelletoscale

Delusional! podcast | YouTube

Delusional! Movement community: https://www.facebook.com/share/g/1dbLBtVS39/?mibextid=wwXIfr

Be sure to rate, review, and follow this podcast on your player and also, connect with me IRL for more goodness and life-changing stuff.

• Schedule a FREE podcast clarity call with me - Your future audience is out there. Talk to them!
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Mica Miller told her friends that if she died by suicide, it wasn't her. It was JP. Netflix gave Death of the Pastor's Wife three episodes, and my repeat guest Jennie Gage watched her own marriage play out on screen. She spent 24 years as the wife of a Mormon church leader, survived her own suicide attempt, and has a theory about what really happened to Mica. This one is harrowing. Trigger warnings on this one: suicide, abuse, and religious coercion. If you're struggling, call or text 988 (US).

Notable timestamps

• 00:00 "He makes JP Miller look kind of mild"
• 03:44 Born Mormon in 1974: the wifey immersion program
• 11:27 "Why can't she just be Mica?"
• 13:05 Trained to be a pet, and the second earring
• 17:54 "He picked me"
• 23:22 Spiritual warfare: when abuse gets blamed on Satan
• 27:47 Trauma bonded to Jesus
• 35:19 The timeline of Mica's final day
• 39:37 Was it suicide? "Yes and no"
• 54:43 What Jennie would have said to Mica

Rather watch this on YouTube? https://youtu.be/rhndF2WJkps

Jennie Gage:

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@lifetaketwo7662
• Substack: https://lifetaketwo.substack.com
• Jennie's first Culture Changers episode: https://youtu.be/y7Hz_ui5Kx0

Allison

• Free 90-Second Podcast Audit: https://allisonhare.com/pod90
• Free Podcast Clarity Call: https://allisonhare.com/freecall
• Instagram: https://instagram.com/allison__hare
• LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/allisonhare

Be sure to rate, review, and follow this podcast on your player and also, connect with me IRL for more goodness and life-changing stuff.

• Schedule a FREE podcast clarity call with me - Your future audience is out there. Talk to them!
• Sign up for the free weekly email
• AllisonHare.com
• Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, and YouTube.
• DOWNLOAD the free podcast equipment guide- No guesswork, no google rabbit holes, start recording today
• Reb3l Dance Fitness - Try it at home! Free month with this link.
• Feedback and Contact:: [email protected]

Julianna Glasse was a chart topping Christian pop star who sang at Donald Trump's 2017 National Prayer Breakfast and taught tens of thousands of women that their closeness to God ran straight through their husbands. Then her husband found the books she was hiding, threw one on the floor, and told her "this is what happens when you read." She turned his sentence into the title of her new book, lost her marriage, her tours, and her book deal, survived death threats and sexual violence threats from fellow Christians, and became the first single woman ever partnered with Oxford's Saïd Business School. What religion actually teaches women about their own worth, and what it costs to walk away from it.

Notable timestamps:

• [02:48] Meeting Julianna Glasse, and the cheeky title of her new book
• [04:01] The doctrine of depravity, taught to her at age four
• [09:04] Singing at Trump's 2017 National Prayer Breakfast, and what she was taught about women
• [12:39] Meeting her gay neighbors in 2015, and the first crack in her belief system
• [15:11] Public shaming, death threats, and sexual violence threats after her divorce
• [21:18] The night her husband threw her books on the floor
• [27:16] Losing everything, then applying to Oxford's Saïd Business School
• [33:53] Sexual exploration, non-monogamy, and reclaiming her body
• [45:44] Launching This Is What Happens When Women Read, and reaching 4 million women in 67 countries
• [51:18] Her relationship to God and a higher power today

Prefer to watch on YouTube? https://youtu.be/VdzeTBUVgaU

Julianna Glasse:

• Book (Amazon): https://link.amazon/B058uJc4n
• Website: https://www.juliannaglasse.com/
• This Is What Happens When Women Read (nonprofit): https://www.thisiswhathappenswhenwomenread.org/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/juliannaglasse/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliannaglasse/

Allison:

• Follow me on Instagram: https://instagram.com/allison__hare
• Let's connect on LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/allisonhare
• Free Podcast Clarity Call: https://allisonhare.com/freecall
• Weekly email, Thursdays: https://allisonhare.com/email

Be sure to rate, review, and follow this podcast on your player and also, connect with me IRL for more goodness and life-changing stuff.

• Schedule a FREE podcast clarity call with me - Your future audience is out there. Talk to them!
• Sign up for the free weekly email
• AllisonHare.com
• Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, and YouTube.
• DOWNLOAD the free podcast equipment guide- No guesswork, no google rabbit holes, start recording today
• Reb3l Dance Fitness - Try it at home! Free month with this link.
• Feedback and Contact:: [email protected]

Matt Grace grew up with a chef, a housekeeper, and a father who paid for his first prostitute, and by 29 he'd spent a hundred and fifty thousand dollars on sex workers and burned through every drug you can name. Matt spent his career as an interventionist for some of the wealthiest addicts in the country and just released his book, God Doesn't Relapse. We get into the therapist who diagnosed him with an Oedipus complex at nine, the house that became the neighborhood's drug den, the mother who finally changed the locks on him, and a moment where Matt and I go head to head over what actually counts as an addiction. This one's unflinching and important.

Notable timestamps:

• 02:06 "Holy fuck" is exactly the right way to open this one
• 04:11 Expelled from two preschools, flagged as a future sociopath at six
• 06:31 The therapist who diagnosed a nine-year-old's Oedipus complex and let him attack him for years
• 08:13 The Bloomfield Hills mansion and the house that became a teenage drug den
• 15:35 His father pays for his first prostitute, leading to $150K spent on sex workers
• 26:27 Suicidal with a rifle, and choosing God over a bullet
• 28:24 His mother's ultimatum: "Get out, I'm changing the locks"
• 41:35 "That's not recovery, it's weakness": Matt on being triggered
• 44:44 Matt and Allison clash over body dysmorphia versus addiction
• 51:02 The dream car he bought after his father died, and sold eight months later

Guest links:

• Book, God Doesn't Relapse: https://link.amazon/B03ZboAOz
• Matt's website: https://mattgrace.com/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mattsavinggrace/

• National Sobriety Tour: https://mattgrace.com/national-sobriety-tour/

  Allison's links:

• Instagram: https://instagram.com/allison__hare
• LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/allisonhare
• Free Podcast Clarity Call: https://allisonhare.com/freecall
• Weekly email, Thursdays: https://allisonhare.com/email

Be sure to rate, review, and follow this podcast on your player and also, connect with me IRL for more goodness and life-changing stuff.

• Schedule a FREE podcast clarity call with me - Your future audience is out there. Talk to them!
• Sign up for the free weekly email
• AllisonHare.com
• Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, and YouTube.
• DOWNLOAD the free podcast equipment guide- No guesswork, no google rabbit holes, start recording today
• Reb3l Dance Fitness - Try it at home! Free month with this link.
• Feedback and Contact:: [email protected]

JP Miller preached a full sermon less than 24 hours after his wife died - allegedly by suicide - without taking a single question about it. Netflix gave "Death of the Pastor's Wife" three episodes but still left out a lot: the earlier conviction, the first wife whose stories echoed Mica's experience, the third wife already leading worship beside him. I watched the whole thing, went deep into the rabbit hole - and am reporting back here as I noticed some notable patterns that are showing up right now in trad wife culture too. This is a harrowing story whose theological foundations permeate our society across many angles. Trigger warnings on this one.

Rather watch on YouTube? Watch here.

Notable timestamps:

• 00:00 The documentary, the trigger warning, and why this one couldn't wait
• 03:10 Who Mica Miller was, and how grooming looked like devotion at 13
• 11:20 Christian patriarchy 101: the umbrella, submission, and Bill Gothard's IBLP
• 15:40 JP's 1999 conviction, the pardon, and the pattern nobody flagged
• 23:15 The sermon the morning after Mica's death, and the room that stayed silent
• 29:00 What Netflix actually left out
• 33:30 The data: how common this is inside churches, and how few pastors are trained for it
• 36:45 Savanna Stone, trad wives, and why there are no old trad wives
• 41:10 Allison's mom, her dad's advice, and what she wants for her own marriage
• 47:30 Mica's Law: where it stands, and how to actually help

Episode resources:

• National Domestic Violence Hotline: 800-799-SAFE (7233), or text START to 88788
• "Death of the Pastor's Wife" updates, Netflix Tudum: https://www.netflix.com/tudum/articles/death-of-the-pastors-wife-john-paul-miller-updates
• What Netflix left out, Ladbible: https://www.ladbible.com/entertainment/tv/jp-miller-netflix-left-out-documentary-criminal-record-527761-20260902
• Mica's Law update, WBTW: https://www.wbtw.com/news/grand-strand/horry-county/shes-the-reason-second-micas-law-bill-sparks-statewide-push-for-stronger-domestic-violence-protections/
• Savanna Stone documentary: https://youtu.be/Xvy0yOVtUqw?si=a6IUhRM5k3DTKB9Q

Allison's links:

• Follow me on Instagram: https://instagram.com/allison__hare
• Let's connect on LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/allisonhare
• Watch on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@culturechangerspod
• Free Podcast Clarity Call: https://allisonhare.com/freecall
• Weekly email, Thursdays: https://allisonhare.com/email

Be sure to rate, review, and follow this podcast on your player and also, connect with me IRL for more goodness and life-changing stuff.

• Schedule a FREE podcast clarity call with me - Your future audience is out there. Talk to them!
• Sign up for the free weekly email
• AllisonHare.com
• Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, and YouTube.
• DOWNLOAD the free podcast equipment guide- No guesswork, no google rabbit holes, start recording today
• Reb3l Dance Fitness - Try it at home! Free month with this link.
• Feedback and Contact:: [email protected]

Are you as obsessed as I am with the dumbest headlines of the week? Well, you're in luck! I've got comedian and pop culture whisperer Rachel LaForce on to break down what Spencer Pratt's mayoral run, the $250 Trump bill, and trad wife content filmed at Home Goods actually say about the rest of us. Rachel got sober by accident, spent decades masking her neurodivergence, and built her whole show around one idea: comedy gets you to the truth faster than seriousness does. This is a fast, sharp, occasionally unhinged hour that somehow keeps landing on self-belief.

Notable timestamps:

Rachel LaForce, resources and links:

Be sure to rate, review, and follow this podcast on your player and also, connect with me IRL for more goodness and life-changing stuff.

• Schedule a FREE podcast clarity call with me - Your future audience is out there. Talk to them!
• Sign up for the free weekly email
• AllisonHare.com
• Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, and YouTube.
• DOWNLOAD the free podcast equipment guide- No guesswork, no google rabbit holes, start recording today
• Reb3l Dance Fitness - Try it at home! Free month with this link.
• Feedback and Contact:: [email protected]