Deconstructing Mamas

"I sink beneath the swirling surf of words, fears, expectations, conditioning, and advice—and feel for the Knowing."  Glennon Doyle)

In this episode on the Deconstructing Mamas podcast, Sarah Meassick, daughter of podcast host, Esther Joy Goetz, takes us deep into her childhood journey of fear, anxiety and the desire to be the "good girl" and how this manifested in full-blown OCD at a very young age, reinforced and perpetuated by the rigid faith system she grew up with (which many of us can relate to).

Sarah and Esther walk through their mutual story of deconstruction, redemption and the freedom they have found in allowing themselves and each other the safety to be their authentic selves.  Sarah is tender and  brilliant, a combination that will have you sobbing into your tissues and cheering at the same time.

SHOW NOTES:

Sarah is a wife to one and a mom to one and a teacher to lots of second graders.  She is an avid gardener (somewhat crunchy), a yoga-lover, outdoor enthusiast and her heart comes alive as she creates safe spaces for her and all her people to learn and grow and come into their own personal fullness.

You will want to be her best friend (or have her as your second grade teacher) by the end of the episode (or even before that).

Find out how in the world it came to be that one of her best friends and her mom came to produce this Deconstructing Mamas podcast.  It's quite the origin story and will have you saying, "Whaaa?"

Facebook: Sarah Meassick

Instagram:  @sarahemeassick
                          @half.acre_homestead

Blog:  Sarah, Plain and Tall

SPECIAL MENTIONS:

Glennon Doyle

Pete Enns

Bible For Normal People

"When I started writing about deconstruction, I shared because I needed to know there were others out there like me.  Now I share because I sincerely believe what I'm learning is good news."

In this episode on the Deconstructing Mamas podcast, Jordan Harrell, author of that quote, brings her full self to this raw and healing conversation surrounding issues of rejection and exclusion in the small (c) church today. She unpacks her own story down this road to freedom and reminds us all that we are not alone no matter how much it feels that way.   Phew! Listen in and allow room for your soul to breathe.

SHOW NOTES:

Jordan is known for her gracious boldness in the deconstructing space around the internet. She inspires each of us to "call out" the harm and work toward healing.  She invites anyone wondering, searching, or questioning to jump on board and travel with her down the "slippery slope" where freedom lies at the end.

She is a fellow deconstructing mama of three elementary-aged kids and a wife to a Texas high school football coach, which means life is filled with field houses, bleachers and game days.  When she isn't creating content (including fun merch - CLICK HERE) for coaches' wives and regular sports-loving people, she is an avid lover of exploring the mysteries of God and sharing her findings with the rest of us.  It's good good good stuff. You don't want to miss this conversation OR her presence on social media.

Facebook: Jordan Harrell, Writer

Instagram:  @Jordan Harrell, Writer

SPECIAL MENTIONS:

Friday Night Wives

Brian Zahnd, Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God

Rachel Held Evans

Deconstructing Resources (put together by Jordan)

"If we had total support, we would change more easily. It's the fear of rejection that prevents our transformation."

In this episode on the Deconstructing Mamas podcast, David Hayward, author of that quote, and known as NakedPastor around the internet, allows us to pepper him with your (and our) questions in this "Q&A" style format on this episode. Here are some of our favorites:

1.  Why "naked," why "pastor," and why those two words together?

2.  What was the turning point in your spiritual journey that gave you new lenses to see clearly how to truly love "without the fine print"?

3.  What do you think heaven will be like? Do you still believe in one?

4.  What can you say to our listeners who are parents, and already feel like they've made so many mistakes and wonder if it’s too late with their own kids?

SHOW NOTES:

David is "everyone's pastor," especially those who have been oppressed by harmful and toxic religious systems.  He has a personal mission to help others on their journey to freedom, having been on that quest for many years and finding so much of it now himself.  Not only is he the parent of three grown children, who he calls his best friends, he has a wife who he completely adores.  He is an artist and writer extraordinaire, creating works that speak to the soul that longs for freedom. 

He believes that questions are the answer to authentic growth. It’s why he uses words and images to challenge the status quo, deconstruct dogma, and offer hope for those who suffer under it.  During this interview, we felt like we had a long sigh for our deconstructing souls as David is one of the kindest and wisest people you'll ever listen to.

Website: NakedPastor

Facebook: NakedPastor

Instagram:  @NakedPastor

Pinterest: NakedPastor 

Etsy: NakedPastor

Twitter: @NakedPastor

SPECIAL MENTIONS:

Sophia Steadfast Print (little girl with rhino)

Timber Series

Till Doubt Do Us Part

Flip It Like This (latest book)

"If you, too, find yourself eating your words when a crisis hits: 1. You're not alone and, 2. Being wrong can suck, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't also be delicious."

In this episode on the Deconstructing Mamas podcast, Jenny Shannon, author of that quote, tackles the harmful and toxic ideology of "being a good girl" and how that one phrase by renowned poet, Mary Oliver, "You do not have to be good" brought great healing to her broken heart and freed her up to figure out what had been haunting her all her life and what could change. Jenny's gentle wisdom, along with her fantastic ability to make your heart have a good, knowing chuckle, will have you hungry for more. We know we do.

SHOW NOTES:

Jenny is a fellow deconstructing mama of two young girls, English teacher and music enthusiast with a deep-seated penchant for Thai food, fart jokes and dirty martinis. Several years ago, she believed she had finally figured out her life and her role in it. She's been eating her words ever since.

And now we want to as well.

Websites:  Eat My Words
                        The She Interviews 

Facebook: Jenny Vanderberg Shannon
                        The She Interviews 

Instagram:  Jenny Vanderberg Shannon
                          The She Interviews 

OTHER MENTIONS:

Mary Oliver
NakedPastor
Braiding Sweet Grass by Robin Wall Kimmerer 

Wild Geese

You do not have to be good.
You do not have to walk on your knees
For a hundred miles through the desert, repenting.

You only have to let the soft animal
of your body love what it loves.
Tell me about despair, yours,
and I will tell you mine.

Meanwhile the world goes on.
Meanwhile the sun and the
clear pebbles of the rain
are moving across the landscapes,
over the prairies and the deep trees,
the mountains and the rivers.

Meanwhile the wild geese,
high in the clean blue air,
are heading home again.

Whoever you are, no matter how lonely,
the world offers itself to your imagination,
calls to you like the wild geese,
harsh and exciting
— over and over announcing your place
in the family of things.

Mary Oliver

"When love speaks and both sides listen, hearts connect and healing begins." 

In this episode on the Deconstructing Mamas podcast, Shelby, author of that quote, and her daughter, Kahrin, share their heart-breaking and hope-filled "coming in" story about the journey to healing for both of them after Kahrin discovers that she likes girls.

Shelby and Kahrin's fierce desire to finding healing and love after years of hopelessness and destruction from rigid faith systems and toxic beliefs will leave you dumbfounded, grabbing for tissues and a lot more healed yourself. If you know someone, love someone or are someone who lands outside the "heteronormative box" or you are wondering how and where to land on this emotionally-charged topic, this episode is for you. Give a listen. We promise that you won't regret it.

SHOW NOTES:

Shelby Spear, mom of three grown kids, wife to one very good guy (as she likes to call him) and author of the book, How are You Feeling Mama (You Don't Need to Say "I'm Fine"), and her daughter, artist and musician, Kahrin Spear, are family not because they have to be, but because they want to be.

Shelby's words help all moms to feel safe pulling back the veil on all the broken and challenging parts of motherhood while embracing the laughter and joy of the beautiful moments. She is also a Certified Emotional Intelligence Coach, Certified Meditation Teacher (CMT), speaker, and love enthusiast who is passionate about helping others "change the way they look at things so the things they look at change." When you visit her website, you will feel a rush of grace in every direction.

Named after several generations of women in her family, Kahrin's voice is PURE (the meaning of her beautiful and unique name) and soothing, not only to the ear, but to the soul. She is an indie/folk singer-songwriter from Cleveland, OH.  And simply put, she writes music to help people heal, herself included.

Websites:  www.shelbyspear.com
   www.kahrinmusicofficial.com
   www.lovespeaks.life 

Facebook: Shelby Spear, Author
  Kahrin Music Official

Instagram:  Shelby Spear
    Kahrin Music Official  

OTHER MENTIONS:

Glennon Doyle
Abby Wambach
Emily P. Freeman

"You don't HAVE to get married."

In this episode on the Deconstructing Mamas podcast, Stevie Swift, author of that quote, shares her story of reorienting herself from a narrow and rigid place of falling in line with social constructs to the wide-open space of freedom to be herself and what it means to gift that to her son.

Stevie's "out-of-the-box" lifestyle and down-right wisdom about what it means to have permission to live freely will feel like a breath of fresh air and you may want to "be her when you grow up." We sure do. This episode has so many nuggets that you will want to hit rewind and write down on every sticky note you can find and put them on your fridge, your mirror, your car dashboard, everywhere.

You will also find out why she is so obsessed with cheese and writing 365 poems (one for every day of the year) during 2022. We've both written a few now and you are welcome to join the fun!! We hope you do!  You'll find out how when you listen! Here is just a little taste:

I’m having the dreamiest party
Just me and the creamiest Havarti
You might think we’re a sad two
But I think no one asked you
So you can eat your opinion, Smarty
I’ll just keep eating this cheese

SHOW NOTES:

Stevie Swift, a single mom who intentionally chooses to be, refugee resettlement attorney and war veteran turned cheese poem writer and coloring page creator, oozes freedom from her every pore and invites us to enter into that space with her.

If you head to her website, you will find a taste of everything, from devotionals to podcasts to essays to books to FREE coloring pages, every single one of them designed specifically with freedom to be completely yourself.

Website:  www.stevieswift.com, www.steviedoodles.com

Facebook: Stevie Swift, Author, Poems About Cheese 

Instagram:  @stevieswiftauthor

OTHER MENTIONS:

Perichoresis is a Greek term used to describe the triune relationship between each person of the Godhead. It can be defined as co-indwelling, co-inhering, and mutual interpenetration. Alister McGrath writes that it "allows the individuality of the persons to be maintained, while insisting that each person shares in the life of the other two. An image often used to express this idea is that of a 'community of being,' in which each person, while maintaining its distinctive identity, penetrates the others and is penetrated by them.

“When the dust clears and in the quiet of your own heart, what kind of God do you believe in, really? And why?” (The Sin of Certainty - CHECK IT OUT HERE).

In this episode on the Deconstructing Mamas podcast, Pete Enns, author of that quote and Lizz's dad, candidly shares his own journey of deconstruction and how his own "sin of certainty" played out in his parenting, especially the harm it caused to his children and to himself.

Pete's wisdom as a Bible nerd and scholar, along with his witty humor and down-to-earth explanations (for us normal people) helps us to see that deconstructing is not sexy or trendy, but that it is difficult and completely normal and necessary for growth in our faith and life.

Find out what happens when Pete recalls reading the story of Adam and Eve to his then six-year-old and this very wise insight by his son:

"Daddy, snakes don't talk!"

What was Pete's response?

Listen and and find out!!

SHOW NOTES:

Pete Enns, wife to one, dad to Lizz and her two siblings, and completely doting grandpa, tells stories about the messy Bible and what it means to read it with both eyes open to its problems and challenges, and to its promises and possibilities.

He is author of several books, and the cohost for "the only God-ordained podcast on the internet," The Bible for Normal People and in his spare time, a Biblical Studies professor at Eastern University.  According to Wikipedia (WOW!  He has arrived!), Peter Eric Enns is an American Biblical scholar and theologian. He has written widely on hermeneutics, Christianity and science, historicity of the Bible, and Old Testament interpretation.

Website:  www.peteenns.com

Facebook: Pete Enns 

Instagram:  @peteenns
Twitter: @peteenns 

OTHER MENTIONS:

#ad

“Curiosity is the opposite of certainty. Curiosity isn’t about right or wrong or should or shouldn’t. Those words are about certainty.” (page 163 of A Mother's Guide to Raising Herself - CHECK IT OUT HERE).

"Raising kids highlighted just how uncertain life was, but my faith was wholly tied to certainty. Therein lies the tension. So I decided to be curious."

In this episode on the Deconstructing Mamas podcast, Sarah Bragg, author of those two quotes and fellow deconstructing mama of two tweens, dives deep into the ways she has had to lean away from certainty and into curiosity: what's really hard about it and how can we actually do it - super simple steps!

Sarah's humor, combined with her tenderness and strength, lends itself to an incredible conversation that culminates in one of her most important mantras:

"TAKE A SMOKE BREAK!"

What the???

Listen and and find out!!

SHOW NOTES:

Sarah Bragg, wife to one and mother to two tweens, has a deep desire to help other women know they aren’t alone. She helps women survive right where they are—in their life, relationships, work and faith through conversation, connection and curiosity.

Website:  www.sarahbragg.com

Facebook: Surviving Sarah
Instagram:  @sarahwbragg
Twitter: @sarahwbragg 

OTHER MENTIONS:

Anne Lamott
Surviving Sarah Podcast
Saddleback Church
Maya Angelou

#ad

In our second episode on the Deconstructing Mamas podcast, Esther Joy Goetz, the second half of the dynamic hosting duo, shares her story of growing up in a developing war-torn country with her Evangelical missionary parents and how this impacted her faith journey. Listen in to hear how it all came down to this formula:

 “Do all the right things, make all the right, godly choices and life goes the way it should.”

 UNTIL
 IT
 DOESN'T

What happens then? How can we be led by love instead of pushed by fear?
 
SHOW NOTES:

Esther Joy Goetz, wife to one and mother to four grown kids and all their people, has a fierce passion to restore hope for the sacred space where our hearts and our homes meet. This includes faith, marriage and motherhood.

Website:  www.estherjoygoetz.com

Faith:

Facebook:  Esther Joy Goetz, The Dolly Mama

Instagram:  estherthedollymama

Moms of Big Kids:

Facebook:  Moms of Bigs
Instagram:  Moms of Bigs 

OTHER MENTIONS:

Bible for Normal People
Richard Rohr
Emily P. Freeman

To launch our Deconstructing Mamas podcast, Lizz Enns Petters, one of the dynamic hosting duo, shares her story of hardship, heartbreak, and hope.  Find out how "not quite good enough and not quite bad enough" landed her in some very unlikely real life spaces and why she started to go down the path to deconstruct her faith and what good words she has for you today.

SHOW NOTES:

Lizz Enns Petters, daughter of Bible scholar, Pete Enns, is on a mission to bring hope into the most awful of places, where mental health suffers at the hands of a rigid faith systems.

Website: www.elizabethpetters.com
Facebook: Lizz Enns Petters, The Deconstructed Mama
Instagram: @lizzennspetters
Twitter: @eepetters 

OTHER MENTIONS:

Bible for Normal People
Richard Rohr