Ep. 225 (Part 2 of 2) | In Part 2 of our eloquent, passionate, and humorous, dialogue with comedian John Fugelsang, author of the important and irreverent book, Separation of Church and Hate: A Sane Person’s Guide to Taking Back the Bible from Fundamentalists, Fascists, and Flock-Fleecing Frauds, we come to understand what fundamentalism is, and what it signifies for our culture, our politics, and our future. John outlines five common features that characterize fundamentalism across religious traditions, pointing out that fundamentalist Christians have more in common with fundamentalist Muslims than they do with moderate and liberal Christians. “I go after fundamentalists of all religions,” John says, “because it’s turning people off to faith—ruining Christianity, ruining Islam, ruining Judaism.” This is the tragedy for John and what fuels his passion for calling out the hypocrites who do hateful things in the name of religion.

John also enlightens us as to what Christian nationalism is all about, starting way back: “In the U.S., our history of Christianity is inseparable from our history of white supremacy.” Christian nationalism’s religion is power—a gospel of domination over love. Authoritarian leaders and their followers all worship power, he continues, and fills us in on how Christian nationalism is playing out in Russia now. John’s own message is not hateful; his intention is to make it clear that Jesus always taught love and kindness; to suggest that if the Church wants to survive, it needs to go back to the teachings of Jesus; and to help us come together in a common understanding of fundamental values. “It’s hard to love the bigot in your family,” John says. But we can “…hold to the deepest values, the most love, and do what needs to be done with love. We can’t hate the haters back, but we have to beat them without hating them—that’s the challenge.” Recorded December 18, 2025.

“The greatest tragedy to me is when people think that something is religion and don’t realize it’s just fundamentalism.”

1. Fundamentalist Christians have more in common with fundamentalist Muslims than they do with moderate & liberal Christians (00:39)
2. 5 common features of fundamentalism across traditions: women are inferior, violence is okay, punishment over healing & a victimhood complex (00:51)
3. MLK was deeply unpopular at the time of his death—just like Jesus (03:43)
4. Every generation there’s a new word to smear the virtues of love, empathy & caring for others (05:01)
5. Christian nationalism: a gospel of domination over love (07:59)
6. Prosperity gospel: God will reward you if you give to our Church (09:50)
7. Christian nationalism in Russia (13:47)
8. Authoritarian leaders & followers all worship power (15:34)
9. If the Church wants to survive, they need to go back to the teachings of Jesus (17:28)
10. Recreating Jesus as a white guy led to centuries of racism and cruelty (19:55)
11. Using the Bible as camouflage: most people haven’t read it & figure others haven’t either (21:06)
12. What weirdness in the Bible stands out most for John? (26:02)
13. Growing up, it seemed normal that Christianity was about love & helping people who don’t look like you (29:45)
14. It’s hard to love the bigot in your family (30:58)
15. We can’t hate the haters back, but we have to beat them without hating them—that’s the challenge (33:04)
16. Abortion has redefined Christianity, but the Bible never mentions anything against it (34:35)

1. John Fugelsang, Separation of Church and Hate: A Sane Person’s Guide to Taking Back the Bible from Fundamentalists, Fascists, and Flock-Fleecing Frauds
2. John Fugelsang’s SiriusXM show: Tell Me Everything
3. John Fugelsang’s podcast: The Sanity-Cast
4. King in the Wilderness, documentary about Martin Luther King focused on the final two years of his life
5. Jerry Falwell, televangelist & conservative activist
6. Freedom From Religion 2026 Convention
7. Prosperity theology
8. Matthew 25
9. Sharon Salzberg, renowned meditation teacher

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John Fugelsang is the author of the New York Times bestseller SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND HATE: A Sane Person’s Guide To Taking Back the Bible from Fundamentalists, Fascists, and Flock-Fleecing Frauds. He has been murdered on CSI and picketed by the Westboro Baptist Church. John is a Drama League–nominated actor, comedian, and broadcaster, who’s hosted many TV shows and podcasts, including the acclaimed Tell Me Everything series on SiriusXM Progress.

He got George Harrison to give his final performance on VH1, debated Jerry Falwell and David Duke, and made many appearances on MSNBC, FOX News, and CNN. His epic PBS road trip film on the American Dream, Dream On, directed by Roger Weisberg, was named Best Documentary at the New York Independent Film Festival. Fugelsang lives in New York City with his family.

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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell

Ep. 224 (Part 1 of 2) | John Fugelsang, author of the brilliant, irreverent book, Separation of Church and Hate: A Sane Person’s Guide to Taking Back the Bible from Fundamentalists, Fascists, and Flock-Fleecing Frauds, talks eloquently about the difference between true Christianity as taught by Jesus and the hateful teachings of Christian nationalists and televangelists who are in it for the power and the money. John grew up with a clear notion of what Christianity should look like; his parents lived their faith grounded in peace, love, empathy, and service, dedicating their lives to helping people in need, no matter their color or differences. So John set out to take the Bible back from “small-minded, right-wing, nationalist racists,” because he finds it tragic that vast numbers of people are being alienated from faith altogether, and he wanted to give his readers arguments they could use to face off with right-wing Christians about what the Bible really says. Christians and atheists have told him his book validates all of their beliefs, and he has inspired crowds of atheists to cheer loudly for Jesus.

John is an actor, comedian, and talk show host, and his quick wit and well-informed, well-intentioned intellect make for a fast-paced, enjoyable, and educational foray into subjects such as how right-wing nationalists have made Christianity out to be a religion of condemnation and domination; how they quote Saint Paul, with all of his sex hangups and homophobia, rather than Jesus; and how it’s always been the Christ followers pushing back against authoritarian Christianity—adding that Jesus’ teachings are as threatening to authoritarian power today as they were 2,000 years ago. This is a timely, very important conversation about a subject that involves all of us: reclaiming the foundational values of love, humility, open-mindedness, and service. Recorded December 18, 2025.

“Jesus is not about condemnation or domination; his whole movement is about transformation.”

1. Introducing John Fugelsang, award-winning actor & comedian, author of Separation of Church and Hate (00:40)
2. Feeling your religion of peace and love has been hijacked by small-minded, right-wing, nationalist racists (02:59)
3. What was John’s experience writing Separation of Church and Hate? (05:15)
4. How could a religion of love be the same as the fundamentalist stuff we hear on televangelical TV? (08:58)
5. Religion didn’t invent hate, but hate has always found a home in religion (11:25)
6. It’s always been the Christ followers who push back against authoritarian Christianity (14:26)
7. It was Saint Paul—not Jesus—who was anti-woman, anti-gay, and a persecutor of Christians (16:51)
8. Hypocrisy is what outraged Jesus (21:51)
9. Right-wing Christianity does not care about the teachings of Christ, only about conservative Christian power (23:47)
10. The media never covers all the ways people of different religions get along just fine (26:29)
11. Showing our right-wing Christian relatives that Jesus is not an immigrant-hating homophobe in the Bible does more good than calling them out for being immigrant-hating homophobes (29:34)
12. Using scripture & nonviolence to shame frauds out of the Christian nationalism racket (31:50)
13. In the Bible, you can find anything you want to justify your actions (33:29)
14. How has John’s book been received? (35:46)
15. Fundamentalism in any religion means you know that God thinks you’re better than other people (38:19)
16. Fundamentalism is rooted in a particular stage of development where absolute beliefs—black & white, right & wrong—are what’s most important (40:13)

1. John Fugelsang, Separation of Church and Hate: A Sane Person’s Guide to Taking Back the Bible from Fundamentalists, Fascists, and Flock-Fleecing Frauds
2. John Fugelsang’s SiriusXM show: Tell Me Everything
3. John Fugelsang’s podcast: The Sanity-Cast
4. Dietrich Bonhoeffer, pastor who gave his life resisting Nazi Germany’s Christian nationalism
5. Paul the Apostle was born Saul of Tarsus
6. Bishop John Shelby Spong of Newark
7. Matthew 25
8. Senator Raphael Warlock uses scripture & nonviolence to shame frauds out of the racket of Christian nationalism

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John Fugelsang is the author of the New York Times bestseller SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND HATE: A Sane Person’s Guide To Taking Back the Bible from Fundamentalists, Fascists, and Flock-Fleecing Frauds. He has been murdered on CSI and picketed by the Westboro Baptist Church. John is a Drama League–nominated actor, comedian, and broadcaster, who’s hosted many TV shows and podcasts, including the acclaimed Tell Me Everything series on SiriusXM Progress.

He got George Harrison to give his final performance on VH1, debated Jerry Falwell and David Duke, and made many appearances on MSNBC, FOX News, and CNN. His epic PBS road trip film on the American Dream, Dream On, directed by Roger Weisberg, was named Best Documentary at the New York Independent Film Festival. Fugelsang lives in New York City with his family.

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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell

Ep. 223 | Four solid years since Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, integral thinkers Kateryna Yasko and Vytautas Bučiūnas relate what life in Ukraine is like—emotionally, physically, spiritually. Far from what you might expect of a conversation about the state of Ukraine after four years of war—far from being battered and downtrodden—this is a story of resilience, resourcefulness, courage, and accelerated human development. Kateryna likens Ukraine to a living laboratory of transformation—with everyone united in the fight to preserve democracy and their identity as a nation, “the social fabric is strong, the resilience is astonishing…heroes receive a lot of gratitude from the people they serve.” On a personal level, Kateryna and Vytas share how they have grown in ways they wouldn’t have expected: capacities have widened, appreciation of life has deepened, and experiences of profound joy arise in giving their all, together with their compatriots, for the future of the next generation.

Leadership in Ukraine is in an evolutionary elevator, Vytautas, an integral leadership development consultant, tells us. Leaders no longer have the option to be reactive or habitual, and this has generated extraordinary creativity and courage in leadership in the military, business, politics, and social groups. Kateryna, a pedagogical psychologist, points out that human rights, democracy, and freedom are foundational for spiritual growth. People need to understand how to manifest their political self, she says, because if they don’t, they will tend to escape into spirituality in a form of spiritual bypassing. “What can we do to help? co-host John Dupuy asks. “Come to Ukraine!” Kateryna and Vytas respond. Come experience and co-create the vertical development happening in this living laboratory of modern crisis. Recorded February 8, 2026.

“The best way to practice spirituality is human rights assurance and activism; all the rest is secondary.”

1. Introducing from Kyiv, Kateryna Yasko, pedagogical psychologist & Vytautas Bučiūnas, integral coach & leadership development consultant (01:01)
2. What is the psychological and physical weather in Ukraine after 4 years of war? (03:36)
3. Russia is using this very cold winter as a weapon, deliberately targeting infrastructure that supplies electricity & heat (04:08)
4. The social fabric is strong, the resilience is astonishing (06:34)
5. There’s no choice—surrendering is not an option; the war would not end (12:10)
6. Transformation has to include politics: assuring free speech and democracy comes before spiritual work (14:12)
7. What forces are keeping Ukrainians together? (18:14)
8. Humor is a big help (22:15)
9. Leadership in Ukraine is in an evolutionary elevator (24:38)
10. Courage, creative thinking, and gaming logic in the military (27:17)
11. In Kyiv, with guns everywhere, the level of crime is very low (33:14)
12. Putin is hostage to this war now; there are up to 50,000 Russian casualties per month (35:09)
13. John shares his Ukraine! song and the accompanying YouTube video, created by Kateryna’s daughter (36:44)
14. Come to Ukraine! Experience the vertical development happening in this living laboratory of modern crisis (42:10)
15. Measuring teenagers’ developmental levels: Ukrainians are maturing faster, evolving faster (43:59)
16. Donations are welcome (see recommended options under Resources below) (46:04)
17. Passing the 1,418 days of war mark: this war has now run longer than Russia’s “Great Patriotic War,” so glorified after WWII (47:28)

1. James Hillman & Michael Ventura, We’ve Had a Hundred Years of Psychotherapy and the World’s Getting Worse
2. Keeping the Soul of Ukraine Alive: Maintaining Personal & National Ideals while Under Fire in Ukraine (Deep Transformation podcast)
3. Валерій Пекар, Бесіди майстра Хай Тао про стратегію (Master Hai Tao’s Conversations About Strategy by Ukrainian Integralist Valeriy Pekar – as of this writing, this book is not yet available in English, but here is a YouTube interview with the author: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btADES9iwfY
4. Ukraine! Song by John Dupuy (YouTube video)
5. Daniel Kirkpatrick, At The Edge of Democracy: A Pacifist’s Visit to Ukraine
6. Robert Kegan’s Stage Theory of Adult Development
7. Susanne Cook-Greuter, Stages of Human Development (Elevating Consciousness podcast YouTube video)

1. United24, the official fundraising platform of Ukraine initiated by President Zelenskyy, founded to protect, save, and rebuild Ukraine
2. Come Back Alive, the Foundation for Competent Assistance to the Army
3. You are also welcome to donate to a cause of your choice (i.e., evacuating soldiers from the front lines, buying rifles, saving Ukrainian culture, and more, through Kateryna’s PayPal email below, full transparency guaranteed.

Support via PayPal

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Kateryna Yasko (Ukraine) is a psychologist and business trainer specializing in the development of emotional intelligence, trust, cooperation, effective communication, and peaceful conflict resolution. She is the co-founder of the civic and cultural initiatives Embassy of Ukrainian Sense-making and Prōstory. Her academic background includes degrees in international relations and law (MSc), business administration (MBA), and psychology (MSc). Kateryna’s programs are grounded in Integral Theory developed by Ken Wilber, Nonviolent Communication created by Marshall Rosenberg, Speech Act Theory, and the commitment-based organizational culture approach of Fernando Flores. She holds certifications from the Center for Nonviolent Communication, Spiral Dynamics Integral, Harthill Consulting (Leadership Development Framework), and Integrative Enneagram Solutions.

Since the beginning of Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022, Kateryna has dedicated a significant part of her time to volunteering and fundraising in support of both military and humanitarian needs.

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Vytautas Bučiūnas (Lithuania–Ukraine) is a co-founder and managing partner of U-Integral, an integral leadership development company. Vytautas also has vast experience as a top manager in the banking sector including working as the Head of Resident Office, Senior Banker, Associate Director at the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development (Russia, Ukraine). Vytautas’ professional profile includes building organizational units from scratch, carrying out large-scale transformations, and managing crises. Vytautas is a certified Integral Master Coach™ (Integral Coaching Canada), an ICF Professional Certified Coach (PCC)™, and the only business consultant in Ukraine certified in Leadership Maturity Framework – Maturity Assessment for Professionals (LMF-MAP) and Global Leadership Profile (GLP). Vytautas explores the development of human consciousness and complex social systems from a holistic perspective. He considers the growth of a critical mass of mature leaders with systemic thinking and transformational capabilities to be the key to society’s healthy development.

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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell

Ep. 222 (Part 2 of 2) | A. H. Almaas’ teachings on spiritual love and the inner beloved are based on his own experience, he explains in Part 2 of the first dialogue in the Path of Love Series. “In this path, experience is almost everything,” he says. Spiritual experience created the Diamond Approach—it isn’t a philosophy. What makes Hameed’s path of love unique and different from other paths of love, like the Sufi and the bhakti paths? First off, it is the methodology: the practice of inquiry. Inquiry combines both mind and heart, Hameed explains. It adds a means of discernment that helps to keep the force of love from going astray on its own; it brings understanding to our experience, and shows us our obstacles. “[This path] has in it the sensibilities of modern mind and modern life and how to live it from the perspective of the heart.”

Another unique feature of A. H. Almaas’ path of love is how we experience drawing closer and closer to the inner beloved. Hameed describes the experience of approaching the inner beloved as a heartrending mixture of “sweetness, passion, ecstasy, drunkenness… many stages of melting, surrender, effulgence, fullness, radiance… all intertwined with yearning and pain and the feeling of being separate” from one’s heart’s true desire. With his customary concise eloquence, Hameed also answers several of the co-hosts’ questions: How does Hameed see contemporary society in the light of this vision of love? Does he think humanity will wake up? What is a fulfilled life? Hameed concludes by telling us that the question this path of love is designed to answer is, how do you live your life while also engaging in the way of the heart? Recorded December 11, 2025.

“The mind asks the questions, the heart finds the answers. The mind gets clear, the heart melts.“

1. The difference between Hameed’s approach and other paths of love is the methodology: inquiry (00:32)
2. Truth is a quality of the heart, not the mind; the heart knows truth, the mind doesn’t (05:43)
3. Spiritual experience created Hameed’s teaching—it isn’t a philosophy (09:08)
4. The union between inquiry and the force of love (11:19)
5. The heart is patterned by our history, especially our history of love (15:39)
6. Two common misunderstandings: attributing love to an external source, and believing there is only one manifestation of spirit (17:51)
7. Nearing the inner beloved, there are many stages of melting, surrender, passion, ecstasy, all intertwined with yearning and pain, the feeling of separation (18:49)
8. How does Hameed see contemporary society and its many discontents in the light of this vision of love? (20:53)
9. Is humanity going to wake up? (23:03)
10. What is a fulfilled life? (27:29)
11. On the path, the ego self becomes not just secondary—it’s gone (31:11)
12. The death wish: to dissolve into the inner beloved (32:07)
13. A possible future series by Hameed: What happens after you’re enlightened? (34:21)
14. How do you live your life and follow the way of the heart? (35:57)

1. A. H. Almaas, The Inner Beloved: The Heart’s Journey to Divine Unity
2. A. H. Almaas, Love Unveiled: Discovering the Essence of the Awakened Heart
3. A. H. Almaas, Nondual Love: Awakening to the Loving Nature of Reality
4. Bhakti, a concept common in Indian religions, may refer to loving devotion for a personal God, a formless ultimate reality, or an enlightened being
5. Seven Levels of Being, Sufi Path of Love
6. Ken Wilber, The Spectrum of Consciousness
7. Exploring Gurdjieff’s Insight: Man as a Machine (Gurdjieff Central)
8. Sri Ramana Maharshi, Who Am I?

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Deep Transformation’s Path of Love Series begins with an overview of Hameed Ali’s Love Trilogy — Love Unveiled, Nondual Love, and The Inner Beloved — to orient us on the spiritual path of love unique to Hameed Ali and the Diamond Approach, then delves into the profound and deeply touching topics Hameed addresses in his most recent book, The Inner Beloved, published in February 2026. Listeners may want to get a copy of this book, to study and follow along on this extraordinary path of awakening.

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Hameed Ali (A. H. Almaas) was born in Kuwait in 1944. At the age of eighteen, he moved to the U.S. to study at the University of California in Berkeley. Hameed was working on his Ph.D. in physics when he reached a turning point in his life and destiny that led him to inquire into the psychological and spiritual aspects of human nature rather than the physical nature of the universe. He left the academic world to pursue an in-depth journey of inner discovery, applying his scientific precision and discipline to personal, experiential research. This included study with different teachers in different modalities, extensive reading, and continuous study of his own consciousness in an effort to understand the essential nature of human experience and reality in general.

Hameed’s process of exploration led to the creation of the Ridhwan School and, with his colleague Karen Johnson, resulted in the founding and unfoldment of the Diamond Approach. He is the author of 20 books, including Nondual Love: Awakening to the Loving Nature of Reality, Love Unveiled: Discovering the Essence of the Awakened Heart, Keys to the Enneagram: How to Unlock the Highest Potential of Every Personality Type, The Unfolding Now: Realizing Your True Nature through the Practice of Presence, and more.

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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell

Ep. 221 (Part 1 of 2) | Deep Transformation is excited to release the first episode in our new Path of Love Series with A. H. Almaas, in honor and celebration of Hameed Ali’s latest book, The Inner Beloved. The series begins with Hameed sharing his motivation for writing all three of the books in his Love Trilogy (Love Unveiled, Nondual Love, The Inner Beloved), namely, when he realized his prior books had omitted to teach specifically about the role of love on the spiritual path. Love is the energy, the driving force toward union with our inner nature, Hameed explains, and it is love that dissolves the obstacles that remain towards the end of the path. It is the path of heart that gets you all the way.

Hameed orients us with an overview of the Diamond Approach’s experiential path of love, gifting us with some tremendous teachings on love as a prelude to delving deeply into his newest book, The Inner Beloved. When asked, What is the inner beloved? he responds, The beloved is not just love. Love serves the beloved, love is the way to the beloved. The inner beloved is what our deepest heart longs for. The path of the heart is painful at times, he continues, because we feel separate from what we yearn to become one with. At the end of the dialogue, Hameed shares that with his path of love teachings, he wants us to know there is a way to address our longing, our yearning. There is a way for it to complete itself, he assures us. Recorded December 11, 2025.

“The beloved is the deepest nondual truth you can experience.”

1. Introducing A. H. Almaas and his trilogy of books on love: Love Unveiled, Nondual Love, and The Inner Beloved (00:48)
2. Hameed’s motivation to write about love came when he realized his prior books had omitted teaching about the role of love on the spiritual path (04:27)
3. The first book in the trilogy, Love Unveiled, talks about 3 kinds of love important in human life and in spiritual practice (07:01)
4. The second book, Nondual Love, talks about the boundless dimension of universal love (09:05)
5. The third book, The Inner Beloved, is about the path of love—the movement toward our fundamental nature through the heart (10:59)
6. Roger points out that Hameed’s teachings on love go far beyond other spiritual teachings (12:20)
7. The beloved is not just love: love serves the beloved, love is the way to the beloved (13:35)
8. We all have 3 centers of operation: head, heart & belly—each one is a spiritual brain of its own (16:24)
9. Love is the most explicit motivator for the spiritual journey (18:08)
10. The Diamond Approach is not about being liberated or free from suffering, it’s about loving to know the truth (20:40)
11. The path of the heart is painful because we feel separate from what we yearn to become one with (24:13)
12. Emptying the heart of all other loves (26:01)
13. The inner beloved is the most jealous of beloveds (30:21)
14. Was there a certain point of surrender for Hameed? (33:04)
15. Love’s function is to move us towards the inner beloved (35:55)

(For fans of the A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, the Wisdom Series, based on Hameed’s book The Inner Journey Home, will be continued later in the spring.)

1. A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series on Deep Transformation, based on Hameed’s book The Inner Journey Home
2. A. H. Almaas, The Inner Beloved: The Heart's Journey to Divine Unity
3. A. H. Almaas, Love Unveiled: Discovering the Essence of the Awakened Heart
4. A. H. Almaas, Nondual Love: Awakening to the Loving Nature of Reality
5. A. H. Almaas, The Point of Existence: Transformations of Narcissism in Self-Realization
6. A. H. Almaas, The Pearl Beyond Price: Integration of Personality into Being: An Object Relations Approach
7. A. H. Almaas, The Void: Inner Spaciousness and Ego Structure
8. Ram Dass, renowned spiritual teacher, psychologist, and author
9. Bhakti, a concept common in Indian religions, may refer to loving devotion for a personal God, a formless ultimate reality, or an enlightened being
10. Sri Ramana Maharshi, Who Am I?
11. Kabir, Indian mystic and poet

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Hameed Ali (A. H. Almaas) was born in Kuwait in 1944. At the age of eighteen, he moved to the U.S. to study at the University of California in Berkeley. Hameed was working on his Ph.D. in physics when he reached a turning point in his life and destiny that led him to inquire into the psychological and spiritual aspects of human nature rather than the physical nature of the universe. He left the academic world to pursue an in-depth journey of inner discovery, applying his scientific precision and discipline to personal, experiential research. This included study with different teachers in different modalities, extensive reading, and continuous study of his own consciousness in an effort to understand the essential nature of human experience and reality in general.

Hameed’s process of exploration led to the creation of the Ridhwan School and, with his colleague Karen Johnson, resulted in the founding and unfoldment of the Diamond Approach. He is the author of 20 books, including Nondual Love: Awakening to the Loving Nature of Reality, Love Unveiled: Discovering the Essence of the Awakened Heart, Keys to the Enneagram: How to Unlock the Highest Potential of Every Personality Type, The Unfolding Now: Realizing Your True Nature through the Practice of Presence, and more.

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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell

Ep. 220 (Part 2 of 2) | In part 2 of Sliding Towards Authoritarianism, Constitutional Law expert and Ethics professor Mark Fischler unpacks the significance of the extreme lack of civic understanding in the United States and, well informed about students’ cognitive abilities and mental health status nationwide, adds the precipitous drop in achievement scores and through-the-roof diagnoses of ADHD, autism, anxiety, and depression to the mix, concluding, “You begin to see why an authoritarian world requiring only simple actions and answers would be more attractive than a democratic world that requires complexity, conversation, and the ability to see the intrinsic worth of the person across from you… to collectively decide to honor democratic processes and the winner who was voted in.”

This is the challenge, Mark says: “Since everybody has a partial piece of the truth, we need to ask ourselves, am I curious enough to understand another’s partial piece of truth in order to enrich myself and help me understand that we are all in this together?” “We need to take up the fight for greater awareness that recognizes the good, the true, the beautiful, and the oneness of what is,” he continues. Despite all that Mark has shared with us regarding the current Administration’s dehumanizing, authoritarian tactics and other significant factors contributing to the deterioration of our democracy, when asked what gives him hope, Mark answers, “A lot of things!” The discussion ends in a hopeful place—grim realities balanced with inspiring trends, including the growing recognition around the world that we are all in this together in what is essentially one global village. Recorded December 4, 2025.

“To understand is to forgive.” – Dr. Michael Fischler

1. What the problem of pervasive civic ignorance signifies for our democracy (01:02)
2. Our susceptibility to authoritarian leaders is not surprising considering our ignorance of civil responsibility (04:53)
3. Future shock: people under stress regress psychologically, making it even easier for an authoritarian to take over (06:57)
4. There is more than one reason for our pervasive civic ignorance (09:08)
5. Using A.I. to fact-check what we see and hear (10:37)
6. Education: cognitive understanding in young people has plunged below lowest-level functioning thresholds (16:35)
7. Among students, autism, ADHD, anxiety & depression diagnoses are through the roof (18:03)
8. Because of people’s lack of achievement & lack of civic understanding, it makes sense that people are willing to let democracy go (19:40)
9. Cultivating a quest for truth is part of the solution (22:48)
10. A call to contemplative warriors to take up the fight for greater awareness that recognizes the good, the true, the beautiful—and the oneness of what is (25:35)
11. Everybody has a partial piece of the truth (28:36)
12. To understand is to forgive (32:30)
13. The Supreme Court is asking, should we even take race into account? (35:22)
14. What gives Mark hope? A lot of things! (39:51)

1. Professor Mark Fischler, Plymouth State University
2. The Integral Justice Warrior series, co-hosted by Mark Fischler and Corey deVos (Integral Life website)
3. Justice David Souter’s speech at UNH’s Franklin Pierce School of Law: Constitutionally Speaking: How Does The Constitution Keep Up With The Times
4. Alvin Toffler, Future Shock
5. Jia Lynn Yang, America’s Children Are Unwell (NY Times, Nov 2025)
6. Ken Wilber, A Post-Truth World: Politics, Polarization, and a Vision for Transcending the Chaos
7. Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching, chapter 27: “…what is a good man but a bad man’s teacher…”
8. Ken Wilber’s prime directive: protect and promote the well-being of the whole developmental spiral of consciousness, rather than privileging just one level or worldview, A Theory of Everything
9. Louisiana v. Calais
10. Greg Thomas on the Deep Transformation podcast: Using the Dance of Our Differences to Wise Up, Harmonize, and Actualize

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Mark Fischler is a professor of Ethics, Constitutional Law, and Criminal Procedure at Plymouth State University. Prior to joining the Plymouth State faculty, he practiced law, representing poor criminal defendants for the New Hampshire Public Defender’s Office. Mark left the law after being guided by the Universe to focus on his Spiritual Awareness for almost two years. Upon his return, he was called to become a teacher and accepted a job at Plymouth State in 2003.

Since then, Mark has worked extensively with alternative theoretical models in law, constitutional law, and higher education, and has published on integral applications to teaching, being a lawyer, and legal theory. In his time at the university, he’s been a chair, Dean, and Interim VP. His focus in the classroom is ethics and criminal procedure and constitutional law. He is well respected for a teaching philosophy that emphasizes recognizing the humanity and dignity of each student. Professor Fischler was awarded the outstanding teaching award at his university in 2014. He currently offers a weekly Spiritual Inquiry class for college students and also for faculty and staff.

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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell

Ep. 219 (Part 1 of 2) | Constitutional Law expert and Ethics professor Mark Fischler joins Deep Transformation again, to help us make sense of the slide towards authoritarianism happening in the United States today. Mark’s vast knowledge of the law, the Constitution, and the Supreme Court, his deep comprehension of ethics and morality, his Integral understanding, and his profound contemplative awareness all make for an extraordinary exploration of what is going on in this country at levels we don’t often consider. Beginning with examples of events in 2025 that are representative of various facets of authoritarianism, Mark goes on to discuss how the very crassness of the current Administration is undermining democracy: “We need to demand civil, fact-based discussion from our leaders, but we’re all accepting it’s okay to act like toddlers and dehumanize each other.”

Mark cites some stunning figures illustrating the widespread ignorance of democratic processes and institutions among the populace in this country, and describes why a lack of civic understanding makes us susceptible to authoritarians coming in and taking over. He also acknowledges that progressives are at fault for marginalizing conservatives, and calls on us to recognize the honor and dignity of all people, regardless of their politics—this is part of the solution, he explains. Mark’s passionate caring, wanting the best for all people and all beings, is a current that flows throughout, grounding the discussion in a beautiful way, while also making for a heartbreaking contrast relative to the chilling events happening in the political arena now. Recorded December 4, 2025.

“An ignorant people can never remain a free people.” – Thomas Jefferson

1. Introducing a frequent guest on Deep Transformation: Ethics, Law & Criminal Justice professor Mark Fischler, to help us make sense of our deteriorating democracy (00:43)
2. The trajectory of Trump’s presidency: the devolution of democracy towards authoritarian government (01:51)
3. John presents defining characteristics of fascism according to A. I. (04:01)
4. How does Mark define authoritarianism? (07:24)
5. Mark offers examples of 12 hallmarks of authoritarian government that happened in 2025, beginning with the stifling of dissent and speech (08:12)
6. Statistics on how U.S. citizens feel our democracy is performing (16:51)
7. What surprises Mark the most? The crassness & crudeness of the Trump Administration (18:15)
8. The deterioration in the greater culture at large: who and what is responsible? (21:19)
9. Deflecting our attention using whataboutism breeds cynicism & corrodes our democracy (24:45)
10. We need to demand civil, fact-based discussion from our leaders, but we’re all accepting it’s okay to act like toddlers and dehumanize each other (30:00)
11. Recognizing the humanity & inner dignity of everyone is part of the solution (31:16)
12. Progressives on their side are at fault for marginalizing conservatives (33:38)
13. The red meme mentality (Spiral Dynamics) that is taking place (39:24)
14. Why pervasive civic ignorance in the U.S. is a very significant problem (41:57)

1. Professor Mark Fischler, Plymouth State University
2. The Integral Justice Warrior series, co-hosted by Mark Fischler and Corey deVos (Integral Life website)
3. NY Times Editorial Board, Are We Losing Our Democracy? (Oct 2025)
4. Judge Michael Luttig, President for Life (The Atlantic, Dec 2025)
5. Tom Nichols, A Confederacy of Toddlers (The Atlantic, Nov 2025)
6. Supreme Court Justice David Souter
7. Ken Wilber’s prime directive: protect and promote the well-being of the whole developmental spiral of consciousness, rather than privileging just one level or worldview, A Theory of Everything
8. Mona Charon, Whataboutism Is Rotting Our Brains, Our Consciences, and Our Politics (The Bulwark, June 2025)
9. David Brooks, What if We’re the Bad Guys Here? (NY Times Opinion, Aug 2023)
10. Don Beck & Christopher Cowan, Spiral Dynamics, Mastering Values, Leadership and Change
11. Ken Wilber, Boomeritis
12. Justice David Souter’s speech at UNH’s Franklin Pierce School of Law: Constitutionally Speaking: How Does The Constitution Keep Up With The Times

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Mark Fischler is a professor of Ethics, Constitutional Law, and Criminal Procedure at Plymouth State University. Prior to joining the Plymouth State faculty, he practiced law, representing poor criminal defendants for the New Hampshire Public Defender’s Office. Mark left the law after being guided by the Universe to focus on his Spiritual Awareness for almost two years. Upon his return, he was called to become a teacher and accepted a job at Plymouth State in 2003.

Since then, Mark has worked extensively with alternative theoretical models in law, constitutional law, and higher education, and has published on integral applications to teaching, being a lawyer, and legal theory. In his time at the university, he’s been a chair, Dean, and Interim VP. His focus in the classroom is ethics and criminal procedure and constitutional law. He is well respected for a teaching philosophy that emphasizes recognizing the humanity and dignity of each student. Professor Fischler was awarded the outstanding teaching award at his university in 2014. He currently offers a weekly Spiritual Inquiry class for college students and also for faculty and staff.

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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell

Ep. 218 (Part 2 of 2) | In Part 2 of the 17th dialogue in the A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, Hameed Ali explores the great freedom we experience when we allow being itself to unfold through us—when we let reality take its course without our egoic selves getting in the way. When we are out of the way, Hameed explains, all the virtues come through us: responsibility, ethics, morality, compassion, caring, sensitivity, and more. These ideals are not human-made, he says, they are expressions of our true nature. In fact, Hameed adds, this is what a true human is; expressing the absolute is the fulfillment of life.

Just knowing the absolute does not eliminate all obstacles, Hameed continues. Even as we go very deep, there are “ego islands” that pose ongoing difficulties. But the practice is to be with our experience and let it inform us—allow our life experiences to become the arena for the expression of spirit. All we need to do is abide in the knowing that the absolute is expressing itself through us, Hameed says. And laughs telling a story about the “do nothing” instructions of lamas and Zen teachers, as they attempt to show their students that there is nothing to be done but get out of the way. All manifestation, our lives, even our problems and challenges and getting lost in the illusion is all a play of the absolute, Roger reflects. Another very rich, deeply nourishing conversation with A. H. Almaas. Recorded November 13, 2025.

“If we become mature enough to cease and desist, to let reality take its course… when we’re out of the way, true nature will come through—that’s what a true human is.”

1. Is there such a thing as a false descent? (00:33)
2. Most of the time, a realization of the absolute is incomplete—there are still some issues that haven’t been worked out (01:43)
3. Hameed’s teachings expanded as his experience expanded (04:22)
4. Even a spiritual teacher with an incomplete realization can be helpful; what causes trouble is when teachers don’t acknowledge their knowing is limited (07:26)
5. All we need to do is abide in the knowing that the absolute is expressing itself through us (12:25)
6. The practice is to be with our experience; the ego gets in the way by trying to take over (15:00)
7. The great freedom of allowing reality to take its course: the do nothing meditation (18:02)
8. Our life is fulfilled when we’re acting at the behest of the absolute (23:10)
9. Even as we know the absolute, there is always more to be free from (24:17)
10. The central issue of descent is letting go of all identification—of our ego, even of the absolute (28:41)
11. Reality is such an interesting thing—even ignorance is an interesting thing (31:57)
12. True nature is indestructible, incorruptible—at bottom it is perfect (34:26)
13. Don’t get discouraged reading this chapter, if you just learn a few things, that’s all that matters (37:02)

1. A. H. Almaas (Hameed Ali), founder of The Ridhwan School, home of The Diamond Approach
2. A. H. Almaas, The Inner Journey Home: Soul’s Realization of the Unity of Reality
3. Chogyal Namkhai Norbu & Adriano Clemente, The Supreme Source: The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde, initial Dzogchen book that says any spiritual practice will only delay enlightenment
4. Seng-t’san, the Third Chinese Patriarch, The Hsin Hsin Ming, Verses on the Faith-Mind
5. A. H. Almaas, Runaway Realization: Living a Life of Ceaseless Discovery
6. Dzogchen
7. Lectio Divina

The A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series will generally follow the sequence of Hameed’s magnum opus, The Inner Journey Home (which John describes as psychoactive and spiritually, psychologically, and intellectually transformative), so listeners may want to get a copy of this book, to study and follow along on this exhilarating path of awakening.

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Hameed Ali (A. H. Almaas) was born in Kuwait in 1944. At the age of eighteen, he moved to the U.S. to study at the University of California in Berkeley. Hameed was working on his Ph.D. in physics when he reached a turning point in his life and destiny that led him to inquire into the psychological and spiritual aspects of human nature rather than the physical nature of the universe. He left the academic world to pursue an in-depth journey of inner discovery, applying his scientific precision and discipline to personal, experiential research. This included study with different teachers in different modalities, extensive reading, and continuous study of his own consciousness in an effort to understand the essential nature of human experience and reality in general.

Hameed’s process of exploration led to the creation of the Ridhwan School and, with his colleague Karen Johnson, resulted in the founding and unfoldment of the Diamond Approach. He is the author of 20 books, including Nondual Love: Awakening to the Loving Nature of Reality, Love Unveiled: Discovering the Essence of the Awakened Heart, Keys to the Enneagram: How to Unlock the Highest Potential of Every Personality Type, The Unfolding Now: Realizing Your True Nature through the Practice of Presence, and more.

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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell

Ep. 217 (Part 1 of 2) | In the 17th dialogue of the A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, Hameed Ali explores the classic spiritual theme: the journey of descent. What happens after we awaken, having had a realization of the deepest kind? The path of descent, where we retain the awareness of what came with our experience of the absolute, and bring it into our life, expressing it with every aspect of our being. Many teachings talk about the ascent (the journey of awakening) and the descent, Hameed explains, but when they talk about the descent, they interpret it as an individual coming down the mountain with their great realization. Hameed thought this was how it happened too, he laughs. But then it became clear to him following his own descent that it is not an enlightened individual who descends back into the world—it’s the absolute. In Christian terms, it’s the father who comes, appearing as the son.

What was it like for Hameed as he descended, living in the absolute dimension at the same time as living in the everyday world? co-host John Dupuy asks. Something transcendent lives through the body with the individual as the organ of perception, Hameed responds. “The entire universe becomes subtle shimmerings…like the waves in quantum theory; the blackness so extreme that it shines—and that sheen is the world.” Different from the classic Eastern spiritual path, where what is significant is living the transcendent rather than living regular life, in the Diamond Approach (Hameed’s path), actualization is the goal, coming back to the everyday world and living life as an expression of the Absolute. Recorded November 13, 2025.

“It is inherent to true nature for it to be lived in the world.”

1. Introducing the 17th dialogue in the A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series, focusing on the journey of descent: actualizing the realization of the absolute (00:39)
2. The path begins with the journey of ascent, then comes realization, then the path of descent: actualization, living your realization (04:46)
3. Being in the world and not of it is an important principle of the Diamond Approach (06:44)
4. What was it like for Hameed as he descended, living in the absolute dimension and the everyday world simultaneously? (08:17)
5. It’s not the individual who descends but the Absolute (14:45)
6. Differentiating from the Eastern spiritual path, where what’s important is living the transcendent rather than living life (19:33)
7. Are there obstacles to the descent? (20:44)
8. In descent, the entire universe becomes subtle shimmerings… like the waves in quantum theory (25:04)
9. Something transcendent lives through the body; the individual is the organ of perception (27:06)
10. Hameed was already a spiritual teacher, sharing about the journey of ascent, before he experienced the journey of descent (29:49)
11. Can a person experience a series of cycles of ascent and descent? (31:06)
12. In Christian language, the descent is the father coming into this world, appearing as the son (33:14)
13. Authenticity: the practice is to be your experience, abide in it, and let it reveal its truth (34:29)
14. The quintessence is the full integration of all the dimensions (36:13)
15. The absence of substance is what gives the Absolute its power (37:46)

1. A. H. Almaas (Hameed Ali), founder of The Ridhwan School, home of The Diamond Approach
2. A. H. Almaas, The Inner Journey Home: Soul’s Realization of the Unity of Reality
3. Ramana Maharshi, Hindu sage and liberated being
4. Cynthia Bourgeault, modern-day mystic, author, retreat leader
5. Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
6. Arnold Toynbee’s cycle of withdrawal and return, A Study of History
7. Dzogchen
8. Mahamudra
9. Dharmakāya

The A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series will generally follow the sequence of Hameed’s magnum opus, The Inner Journey Home (which John describes as psychoactive and spiritually, psychologically, and intellectually transformative), so listeners may want to get a copy of this book, to study and follow along on this exhilarating path of awakening.

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Hameed Ali (A. H. Almaas) was born in Kuwait in 1944. At the age of eighteen, he moved to the U.S. to study at the University of California in Berkeley. Hameed was working on his Ph.D. in physics when he reached a turning point in his life and destiny that led him to inquire into the psychological and spiritual aspects of human nature rather than the physical nature of the universe. He left the academic world to pursue an in-depth journey of inner discovery, applying his scientific precision and discipline to personal, experiential research. This included study with different teachers in different modalities, extensive reading, and continuous study of his own consciousness in an effort to understand the essential nature of human experience and reality in general.

Hameed’s process of exploration led to the creation of the Ridhwan School and, with his colleague Karen Johnson, resulted in the founding and unfoldment of the Diamond Approach. He is the author of 20 books, including Nondual Love: Awakening to the Loving Nature of Reality, Love Unveiled: Discovering the Essence of the Awakened Heart, Keys to the Enneagram: How to Unlock the Highest Potential of Every Personality Type, The Unfolding Now: Realizing Your True Nature through the Practice of Presence, and more.

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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell

Ep. 216 (Part 2 of 2) | In Part 2 of Deep Transformation’s first episode in the What is Real Greatness Series, longtime spiritual teacher Jack Kornfield declares that in his experience real greatness is a greatness of heart. In Buddhism, greatness of heart is embodied in the ideal of the bodhisattva—one whose life is dedicated to the well-being of all. Embodying compassion is not a grim proposition, Jack explains, but a joy! The whole point of it being human happiness and inner freedom. Because of his deep understanding of compassion, Jack was invited to the Oslo Freedom Forum to counsel global activists on how to prevent burnout, and when talking to them about their outrage, he told them, “You do this because you care—that is not a loss of power, it’s actually the deep power. Tune into the care.” Greatness of heart is the great power.

Jack relates that the experience of awakening can be felt in different ways: it might feel like everything is love, perfection, emptiness, or freedom. For me, the channel is love and my practice is to love everyone, he explains. We have to love both the lion and the gazelle, he continues, and shares a poignant story of how very loving Ram Dass became towards the end of his life, loving everything, even his pain. When the conversation turns towards the potential demise of humanity, Jack wonders, will we be able to do something beneficial with our consciousness now that we’re aware that we are all connected? What is the spirit you want to lead with? he asks. What is the dance you want to do? A thoroughly thought provoking, nourishing, inspiring conversation. Recorded October 2, 2025.

“You think you’re separate – you think you exist. But you’re not who you think you are. You are consciousness in drag.”

1. You think you’re separate, but you’re not who you think you are (00:27)
2. The bodhisattva vow as aspiration, never off-duty (04:23)
3. What real greatness is changes with each turning of Buddhism (08:26)
4. The experience of awakening can be felt in different ways: love, perfection, emptiness, or freedom (12:19)
5. Jack’s channel & inspiration is love; and a story of how very loving Ram Dass became (19:00)
6. Teaching activists to remember to hold themselves in their own circle of compassion at the Oslo Freedom Forum (23:52)
7. Jack’s upcoming workshop: Inner Technology for Outer Technologists (29:18)
8. How do you embody the bodhisattva? Spiritual practice isn’t a grim duty—it’s actually joyful (31:08)
9. As Andre Gidé said, joy is our moral obligation (32:49)
10. What stands out to Jack about all the amazing people he’s encountered? (34:09)
11. When there’s a greatness of heart…that is the great power (35:04)
12. The hospice now is for humanity, not for Earth, which knows how to take care of itself (37:42)
13. What is the spirit you want to lead with? What is the dance you want to do? (40:18)
14. The end questions: Did I love well? Did I live fully? Did I learn to let go? (41:13)
15. Your purpose here is to deliver your cargo, your gifts (41:47)

1. Jack Kornfield, founding teacher of Spirit Rock Meditation Center and the Insight Meditation Society, author of A Path with Heart and many more
2. Stanislav Grof, LSD: Doorway to the Numinous
3. Ram Dass & Rameshwar Das, Be Love Now: The Path of the Heart
4. The Oslo Freedom Forum, bringing together the world’s most engaging human rights advocates, journalists, artists, tech entrepreneurs & world leaders to brainstorm ways to unleash human potential around the globe
5. The Dalai Lama & Desmond Tutu, The Book of Joy: Lasting Happiness in a Changing World
6. Nobel prize winner André Gide
7. Malidoma Patrice Somé, shaman, writer & workshop leader, primarily in the field of spirituality
8. Zen Master Seungsahn, The Compass of Zen

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Jack Kornfield trained as a Buddhist monk in Thailand, India, and Burma. He holds a Ph.D. in clinical psychology and is a founding teacher of the Insight Meditation Society in Massachusetts and Spirit Rock Meditation Center in California. He is one of the key teachers to introduce mindfulness practice to the West, has taught internationally since 1974, and is the author of 17 books which have sold 2 million copies.

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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell