World leaders and army veterans have rejected President Trump's claim that Nato service personnel did not fight on the front lines or play a key part during the US-led war in Afghanistan. We speak to a former secretary general of Nato, whose alliance sent thousands of international troops to fight during the invasion.

Also in the programme: grim reports continue to emerge from Iran; why Nelson Mandela's family is fighting to keep his belongings from an auction; and does celebrated political scientist Francis Fukuyama believe this is the end of the "rules-based" international order?

(Photo: US President Donald Trump speaks as he meets with Nato Secretary General Mark Rutte in the Oval Office of the White House in Washington DC, US, October 22, 2025. Credit: Reuters)