Devin Elliot is a former pro snowboarder turned software engineer who has logged thousands of hours building AI systems. His P(Doom) is a flat ⚫. He argues that worrying about an AI takeover is as irrational as fearing your car will sprout wings and fly away.

We spar over the hard limits of current models: Devin insists LLMs are hitting a wall, relying entirely on external software “wrappers” to feign intelligence. I push back, arguing that raw models are already demonstrating native reasoning and algorithmic capabilities.

Devin also argues for decentralization by claiming that nuclear proliferation is safer than centralized control.

We end on a massive timeline split: I see superintelligence in a decade, while he believes we’re a thousand years away from being able to “grow” computers that are truly intelligence.

Timestamps

00:00:00 Episode Preview

00:01:03 Intro: Snowboarder to Coder

00:03:30 "I Do Not Have a P(Doom)"

00:06:47 Nuclear Proliferation & Centralized Control

00:10:11 The "Spotify Quality" House Analogy

00:17:15 Ideal Geopolitics: Decentralized Power

00:25:22 Why AI Can't "Fly Away"

00:28:20 The Long Addition Test: Native or Tool?

00:38:26 Is Non-Determinism a Feature or a Bug?

00:52:01 The Impossibility of Mind Uploading

00:57:46 "Growing" Computers from Cells

01:02:52 Timelines: 10 Years vs. 1,000 Years

01:11:40 "Plastic Bag Ghosts" & Builder Intuition

01:13:17 Summary of the Debate

01:15:30 Closing Thoughts

Links

Devin’s Twitter — https://x.com/devinjelliot

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