Dying to Tell You

Jonathan Pascual is a lung transplant nurse practitioner and 16-time Ironman finisher who's spent years helping other people through the end of their lives. Now, three and a half years into his own terminal diagnosis, he's still training, still racing — including a finish at the Ironman World Championship in Kona. Movement is his medicine, and stoic philosophy is his compass. Join Cody for a conversation about clarity, defiance, and what it means to keep choosing to move, even when the rock keeps rolling back down. 

Nobody turns to their car for comfort. Nobody's pain is eased by holding a wad of cash. Especially in times of challenge, all we have is each other.

Cody's deeply personal reflection this week points to this critical fact of life. We see this so movingly in MaRee's kids coming together to support her as she sold her house and became the wandering mom with ALS, welcome in every home, supported at every turn. 

And Cody himself saw this when he attended and spoke at a dear friend's Celebration of Life this past week. Amid all the grief and sadness, he felt the real meaning of connection and support from the people around him. 

All we have is each other. Give it a listen today, and be sure to listen to MaRee's full episode if you haven't already. 

It took MaRee two full years to figure out what was happening to her body, and at the end of that frustrating journey she faced the one diagnosis she most feared — ALS.

Maybe because of the severity of that diagnosis. Maybe because she's a hospice nurse of 17 years who's cared for ALS patients and knows what's coming. Or maybe because she simply is who she is. Whatever the reason, MaRee took the advice she was given straight to her generous heart: Do It Now. Don't wait. 

She quit her job, sold her home, and has been traveling with her family ever since. She's racked up more miles than anyone else we can think of in the year since she's been diagnosed. 

For more information on the sponsor of this episode, please visit the Iliff Death Care Collective.

For free access to additional content and updates from Cody, visit our Patreon! 

And to listen to music from this episode and all episodes, follow our ever-growing playlist on Spotify.

Why? The shortest, most impossible question. 

The ironies and injustices of terminal diagnoses seem impossible to reconcile. They came up in last week's episode as we talked with Ross, who went from expert to patient in the space of four days.

Cody reflects on not just that but also on what we can do when we face these kinds of unanswerable questions. And the one thing he finds we can do is kindness. We can be kind. And for people facing their own terminal diagnosis, we can be kind in a very specific, meaningful way. 

Who better to get lung cancer than one of the world’s leading experts on lung cancer?

Admittedly, the word “better” is not really right here. But this is essentially what we heard from Dr. Ross Camidge when he sat down to talk with Cody for this week’s episode.

Ross is a global expert in his field, the doctor other doctors go to. In 2022, he was diagnosed with a form of advanced non-small cell lung cancer driven by a specific acquired genetic change in the tumor cells — one of the exact types of lung cancer he has spent his career researching and treating.

For more than two years, Ross kept his diagnosis close, only telling a small circle of peers and his family for fear of negatively impacting his patients and the work he still had left to do. But disease progression eventually made it impossible to hide it any longer, and he came out of his diagnosis closet.

When people found out he had the very type of cancer he’s an expert on, they’d often react with dismay at the irony. “You’re the last person who should get this,” they’d say. But Ross sees things differently.

Who better to understand and navigate cancer’s maze of diagnoses and decisions? Who better to learn through his own experience what it has been like for the community of cancer patients he’s treated for years? And who better to take this two-sided coin of knowledge to the world and share what he’s seen?

As he says, he sees it as a privilege that he gets to “take one diagnosis for the team.”

Join Cody and Ross for a brilliant, touching, highly informative and poignantly funny conversation about facing a cancer diagnosis with every card on the table. 

For more information on the sponsor of this episode, please visit the Iliff Death Care Collective.

For free access to additional content and updates from Cody, visit our Patreon! 

And to listen to music from this episode and all episodes, follow our ever-growing playlist on Spotify.

Difficult situations can either harden our hearts or open them. And generosity is a choice that each of us can make to resist hardening ourselves, to instead soften and be a safe place for others who might be feeling vulnerable and in need.

Join Cody for this week's reflection on generosity and softening our hearts in the face of difficulty, thoughts inspired by his conversation last week with Jody.

Be sure to join our community on Patreon for free at patreon.com/DyingToTellYou for more content.

And if you feel called to support those who are dying, please visit our sponsor, the Iliff Death Care Collective, where you can find courses to help you pursuit this worthwhile journey.

Jody Gelb had a calm, healthy pregnancy — and then, in the span of a single hospital stay, everything changed. A rushed delivery. Forceps. A baby who wasn't breathing. An emergency trip to the NICU before Jody had even held her daughter.

Days later, a nurse handed her the poem "Welcome to Holland," a metaphor often given to parents of children with special needs. You planned a trip to Italy, you landed somewhere unexpected, and it turns out to be lovely too. Jody appreciated it. But it didn't fit. Holland was calm. This was a crash landing.

In this conversation, Jody — a stage actor with 40 years on New York and San Francisco stages, and author of the memoir She May Be Lying Down, But She May Be Very Happy — tells her daughter Louisa's story on her behalf. She and Cody trace the slow climb from that terrifying first year — hoping for a limp, then a wheelchair, then simply that her daughter would know she was loved — through years of real joy, a tracheostomy, and a worldwide community of families who taught her how to keep her heart open.

It's a story about how much a person can survive, and how grace tends to show up exactly when it's needed — in a husband's words, a stranger's kindness, a stage manager who drove a grieving mother home.

Sometimes it takes the unexpected—even the unwanted—to remind us of the extraordinary experience of living. 

In our first Reflection of Season 4, Cody shares his thoughts on his conversation with Keaton, a young father who was living what he called an "ordinary life" until his diagnosis of cancer. Listen to Keaton's full story here or on dttypodcast.com. 

Be sure to join our community on Patreon for free at patreon.com/DyingToTellYou for more content.

And if you feel called to support those who are dying, please visit our sponsor, the Iliff Death Care Collective, where you can find courses to help you pursuit this worthwhile journey.

At 35, Keaton was an "average guy" — husband, dad to a two-year-old, into cooking and woodworking — until a routine ER visit found tumors on his liver. Now living with intrahepatic cholangiocarcinoma, Keaton talks with Cody about what it took to get his doctors to listen, the loneliness of "cancer planet," and chasing a shot at a liver transplant — all while training to climb Mount Rainier for cancer research.

Keaton is our first guest of Season 4. Be sure to subscribe on your preferred podcast platform to get all the upcoming episodes including Cody's reflections between guests. 

And join us over on Patreon for free to connect with a community of life-minded folks who are living life to the fullest: https://www.patreon.com/DyingToTellYou

>>Theme Music by Michael Shynes, "The Other Side"<<

Music featured in this week's episode:

Jackson Rau, Vampire

Ziv Moran, Evergreen

Louis Island, I Know a Place

J. Lind, For What It’s Worth

As we get ready to start Season 4 of Dying To Tell You (next week!), we wanted to share with you the first episode of each preceding season. Our final encore episode this week is Sue. 

In this first episode from Season 3, Sue shares her beautiful story with us all the way from Melbourne, Australia. She found us through the podcast Chris produces for Sounds True, "Insights At The Edge." (Thank you again, Tami Simon!)

Sue experienced an Out of Body Experience (OBE) when she received her cancer diagnosis, and her story is so full of life, love, and an entire reframing of our human experience.

We'll be following up with Sue very soon to see how she's doing. You'll be able to hear that callback episode when it's ready, as well as other bonus materials as we have them, on our Patreon. It's free to join!

Give Sue your time and attention today, and we'll see you next week for Season 4!