February 27, 2025

E121: Kevin Kelly on What Makes Us Human in an AI World

50 minutes

In this episode of Upstream, we’re releasing Erik Torenberg’s interview from 2023 with Kevin Kelly, founding executive editor of Wired Magazine, discussing Kevin’s new advice book, the impact of gratitude, and how technology, especially AI, interacts with and shapes human existence and culture.

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LINKS:

Kevin Kelly's book: Excellent Advice for Living: https://www.amazon.com/Excellent-Advice-Living-Wisdom-Earlier/dp/0593654528

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X / TWITTER:

@kevin2kelly

@eriktorenberg

@turpentinemedia

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HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE EPISODE:

Kevin Kelly published an advice book featuring "telegraphic aphorisms" rather than stories, which better suits his style.

Kevin believes gratitude unlocks all virtues by connecting us to others through recognizing what we've been given.

Emotional responses work faster than logical thinking, which is why people remember how you made them feel more than what you said.

Reflecting on what irritates you in others can provide valuable insight into understanding yourself.

Humans are "opaque to themselves," lacking clear understanding of their own minds and motivations.

Kevin disputes overpopulation concerns, warning instead about future population collapse.

According to Kelly, the joy of having children compounds, and he's never met anyone who regretted having more children.

Kevin views speciation of humans as more likely to come through genetic engineering than cyborg technology.

Kevin dismisses rapid AI takeover fears as "comic book fantasy," arguing that intelligence alone doesn't guarantee dominance.

The concept of "we've invented our humanity" refers to language, cooking, domestication, and other technologies that shaped human evolution.

Kevin predicts AI will help us understand our own intelligence better, forcing us to reconsider concepts like creativity.

Most effective systems combine mostly decentralized elements with small amounts of centralized control.

Silicon Valley's contribution to culture includes "demoralizing failure" – reframing it as a necessary component of progress.

Small, managed failures prevent catastrophic ones and should be viewed as learning experiences.

Kelly embraces the concept of "fail forward" – treating failures as stepping stones rather than endpoints.

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By Erik Torenberg

4.2

5959 ratings