Easy Prey

We've heard the polarizing narrative, "Either you're with me or you're my enemy." Using this polarizing statement can allow people to fall prey to being manipulated. Today's guest is Sander van der Linden. Dr. van der Linden is a professor of Social Psychology and Society and the Director of Cambridge Social Decision Making Lab in the Department of Psychology at the University of Cambridge. He is ranked among the top 1% of highly cited social scientists worldwide and has published over 150 research papers. He's the author of Foolproof: Why Misinformation Infects Our Minds and How to Build Immunity.

• [1:01] - Sander describes what he does at Cambridge and why we began his work on this topic beginning ten years ago.

• [3:22] - The early days of the internet created an interest for Sander as he saw that anyone could pretend to be someone else.

• [5:01] - What exactly is misinformation?

• [6:29] - Disinformation is the spread of misinformation with harmful or deceitful intent.

• [8:37] - One form of disinformation is click-baited sensational headlines that seem harmless.

• [10:32] - Sander describes some of the key phrases within content that usually indicate mis- or disinformation.

• [13:11] - Even if information is accurate, content can be written manipulatively to evoke emotion, particularly rage. This is misleading.

• [15:01] - Most people don't want to be a part of a flame war or in an echo chamber but the behavior is common.

• [16:45] - Social media algorithms seem to reward toxic behavior and amplify polarization that already exists.

• [20:31] - People are constantly being bombarded with information.

• [21:47] - Everyone is scattered in their own echo chambers because of fragmented social media.

• [23:49] - What should platforms be doing to help limit the spread of misinformation? What should individual people do to keep themselves safe?

• [26:01] - The brain needs a few experiences before developing a habit.

• [27:50] - Sander explains why most people don't have the facts to actually defend what they believe to be accurate information.

• [29:56] - Sander has developed games that help users understand misinformation.

• [32:02] - Using the example of climate change and global warming, Sander demonstrates how people can be misled.

• [35:01] - False dichotomies are a real problem and politicians in particular use this strategy.

• [38:50] - The goal is to help others recognize manipulation online, not necessarily to change their mind.

• [41:41] - There are different types of scams and most are disinformation.

• [43:45] - Romance scams use these tactics. How can we inoculate people against this type of information?

• [47:37] - Deradicalization is extremely difficult.

• [49:20] - There's a benefit to being somewhat skeptical. But how skeptical should you be?

• [52:03] - We want to be able to live our normal lives without fear, but there needs to be a healthy amount of skepticism.

• [55:18] - There are some crossovers between persuasion and manipulation.

• [60:42] - You can play the games Sander described at Inoculation Science.

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Scammers, like magicians, use distractions and illusions to keep you from realizing what is really going on. They may choose to have you focus on something that is urgent hoping that you'll make mistakes that you normally wouldn't.

Today's guests are Chris Chabris and Dan Simons. Dr. Chabris is a Cognitive Scientist who has taught at Union College in Harvard University and is a fellow of The Association for Psychological Science. His research focuses on decision-making, attention, intelligence, and behavior genetics. Chris received his PhD in Psychology from Harvard University.

Dr. Daniel Simons is a professor of Psychology at the University of Illinois, where he has the Visual Cognitive Laboratory. Dan received his PhD from Cornell University. His research explores the limits of awareness and memory, the reasons why we often are unaware of those limits, and the implications of such limits on our personal and professional lives.

• [1:18] - Dan and Chris share their background and what their current roles are in their industry.

• [3:27] - Why did Dan and Chris decide to write a book together?

• [6:12] - Stories of victims are engaging and interesting, but these stories don't focus on why we are fooled.

• [8:53] - Chris and Dan share the story of a time they were almost scammed.

• [13:01] - Fictional stories in movies get some things right about what con artists exploit, but real scenarios are not always so precise.

• [14:52] - We have the ability to focus on a select amount of the information in front of us.

• [16:39] - There are a lot of different techniques that scammers employ to put you under time pressure.

• [19:59] - Confirmation bias is the idea that you try to find evidence of what you believe.

• [21:04] - There are a lot of theories about why we are good at some things and not as good at others.

• [22:15] - It is logical to trust someone you know, but social media has created the opportunity to trust misinformation.

• [24:38] - Commitments are assumptions that we make and hold steadfastly to.

• [26:41] - It is easy to trust someone when you've committed to your perception of them.

• [28:33] - Ask yourself if there is anything you believe that could be proven wrong if you were given new information.

• [31:01] - External validation is a great source for seeing things you might have missed.

• [32:48] - There are scams in literally everything, even chess.

• [38:02] - Are scams increasing or is it awareness of scams that is increasing?

• [40:26] - All scams employ the same principles. They are always going to rely on the same tricks and tap into the same fears.

• [42:37] - Dan's hope is that people will question the information they get and become less accepting.

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• The Invisible Gorilla: How Our Intuitions Deceive Us by Chris Chabris and Dan Simons

Our home IoT devices are constantly being probed for weaknesses so that they can be compromised and used for broader nefarious purposes like cyber warfare. The Ukrainians may be considered some of the best in the world when it comes to defending against cyber warfare because they have been regularly attacked and have been defending their systems for years. Today's guest is Mikko Hypponen. He has written for The New York Times, Wired, and Scientific American and has lectured at universities like Oxford, Stanford, and Cambridge. Mikko works as the Chief Research Officer for WithSecure and sits on the advisory board of Europol.

• [1:11] - Mikko shares his background as an old-school hacker.

• [2:46] - His mother advised Mikko to pursue this career in the 1980s.

• [5:23] - Smart devices like doorbells and refrigerators are not configured correctly because security makes the device more expensive.

• [7:50] - Mikko discusses regulation in Europe and how, most of the time, regulation fails.

• [9:03] - Many hackable devices wouldn't be hackable if consumers read the manual.

• [11:13] - Most malware traffic used to be Windows based but is now Linux based.

• [12:26] - Many people don't think that there's any data that can be stolen from IoT devices, but they are surprisingly powerful.

• [14:16] - Mikko explains some recent attacks.

• [15:43] - Medical devices are just as vulnerable as any other IoT device.

• [17:41] - What is a honeypot?

• [19:02] - Mikko shares that he has been a victim himself with his credit card number stolen twice.

• [20:14] - Even experts make mistakes.

• [21:26] - If you believe you have been hacked or think you are being scammed, take a step back.

• [23:06] - Mikko describes some of his experience living so near Russia and monitoring cyber warfare.

• [25:07] - Spying and espionage is a big problem in countries bordering Russia.

• [30:06] - With invasions in 2022, Ukraine improved many systems.

• [31:20] - Mikko makes a prediction on what will come next that sounds like Science Fiction, just like cyber war sounded like before.

• [32:18] - What are Mikko's thoughts on AI?

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Our non-verbal communication is as much or more important than what we verbally communicate. We may display mannerisms that our gut instincts pick up as just off, but a trained FBI Behavioral Analysis can pick up on these signs faster than you might expect. Today's guest is Robin Dreeke. Robin is an accomplished executive coach, bestselling author, and professional speaker with an impressive background. As a Marine Corps officer and retired FBI Special Agent, he served as Chief of the Counterintelligence Behavior Analysis Program where he honed his skills on recruiting spies and behavioral assessment. Robin has translated his expertise into his unique interpersonal communication strategies that focus on recruiting allies in business.

• [1:23] - Robin shares his background and previous roles in the Marine Corps and FBI.

• [2:45] - Robin has not been a victim of a scam, but there have been many attempts and close calls.

• [6:02] - We establish normal patterns of behavior and tempo.

• [7:52] - Be wary of things that deviate from normal patterns of behavior.

• [10:19] - If we're trying to find something wrong, we miss a lot.

• [14:07] - Robin explains why he looks for openness, honesty, and transparency in a nice even tempo.

• [15:42] - Underneath "why" is the "what" and the "how."

• [17:30] - Vulnerability is the willingness to show your shame.

• [20:17] - Words are extremely powerful.

• [22:24] - The more time spent with someone, you will be able to learn their natural tempo and behavior patterns.

• [24:34] - The techniques Robin talks about aren't just applicable to criminal interviews, but even just personal conversations.

• [26:07] - Master manipulators are on a timeline. Usually they're not patient.

• [28:52] - Sales people can also use these techniques to push the tempo out of your comfort zone.

• [31:31] - Robin only vets people based on in-person interactions now.

• [33:12] - Robin compares reality to shows like Criminal Minds.

• [35:43] - The actions that people will take are predictable.

• [37:52] - Some people have the tendency to find something wrong with everyone and everything.

• [40:08] - Focus on having a great conversation with other people.

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Many people have ended up in an MLM because they wanted to help a friend out. But it is important to understand the red flags of how they can motivate and manipulate. Today's guest is Roberta Blevins. Roberta is an anti-MLM advocate who starred in the Amazon Prime documentary Lula Rich and speaks out on social media against MLMs, scams, frauds, and cults and is the host of the podcast Life After MLM.

• [0:45] - Roberta shares her background and what she does now.

• [2:20] - In 2015, Roberta heard about LulaRoe and was initially very excited.

• [3:34] - She wasn't making any more than she had been making in the job she left, but was working a lot more.

• [4:40] - Roberta realized that it wasn't the right way to run a business and it took a toll on her and her family's mental health.

• [6:17] - Pressure and pushback against questions are major red flags.

• [7:28] - Avoid being alone and being led to a second location when talking to someone.

• [8:28] - Roberta explains how different MLMs operate under a pay-to-play model.

• [10:05] - The only way to make money is to hit qualifying monthly quotas that are a big challenge to accomplish.

• [11:58] - What is the difference between a pyramid scheme and an MLM?

• [14:43] - MLMs tend to invade every area of your life.

• [16:10] - Many people have a fake-it-till-you-make-it approach which is misleading people to be recruited.

• [19:26] - Social media plays into this fabricated lifestyle.

• [21:42] - MLMs exploit personal relationships.

• [22:54] - Roberta shares how "icky" it felt to keep a "dirt list".

• [24:38] - There are stories of some people signing up their children in order to meet their recruitment quota.

• [26:30] - Roberta explains the history of MLMs and how they started.

• [29:21] - MLMs aren't going anywhere, but Roberta wants to see regulation in an unregulated space.

• [31:48] - Roberta shares about some of the background work she is doing to help create dialogue about regulation.

• [34:12] - Social media has strengthened MLMs and has gotten more people to sign up.

• [35:53] - In some MLMs, more than half of the sellers are making no money.

• [37:26] - Numbers don't lie. If you are spending or making money, you should track it.

• [38:51] - Track any amount of time you spend on the business.

• [41:07] - Roberta outlines a strategy if you are in an MLM and deciding if it is the right fit for you.

• [44:30] - Have someone who is unbiased listen to you. Be that person for someone else.

• [46:35] - A company should be able to stand up to scrutiny.

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A scalpel in the hand of a surgeon can be an amazing instrument. But the same tool in the hand of a person choosing to do harm is dangerous. The knowledge on how to read someone's behavior is the same thing, either beneficial or detrimental, based on the person's intentions.

Today's guest is Chase Hughes. Chase is a retired US Navy Chief and is the leading military and intelligence behavior expert with 20 years of creating the most advanced behavior skill courses and tactics available worldwide. He is a Harvard educated neuroscientist, keynote speaker, and the author of two bestselling books. He teaches elite groups of government agencies on behavior science skills, including behavior profiling, non-verbal analysis, deception detection, interrogation, and advanced behavioral investigation.

• [1:08] - Chase shares his background as a US Navy Chief and his current work in educating others on behavior science skills.
• [2:45] - Chase tells the story of losing a friend as inspiration to grow his knowledge.
• [4:51] - Hidden stress signals are universal.
• [7:04] - At a certain point of understanding behaviors, Chase sees a world that is hidden right in front of everyone.
• [8:06] - In learning behaviors, focus on learning one at a time until you notice them in your day-to-day life.
• [10:03] - When it comes to psychopaths, there are certain behaviors that are hard to spot.
• [12:01] - Chase does an activity with Chris to demonstrate eye movement.
• [15:18] - When it comes to interrogation and questioning, these eye movements are very telling.
• [17:13] - Women are naturally very good at reading behavior.
• [18:02] - We learn to lie first with our face.
• [20:10] - What is a detail mountain and a detail valley?
• [23:07] - There is a reason we fall so hard for con artists and cult leader personalities.
• [25:10] - All kinds of influence follow this exact model every time: Perception, Context, Permission.
• [27:58] - The second thing that Chase teaches is how to access the mammalian brain.
• [30:36] - Anything we feel emotion about is memorized.
• [33:21] - The more we learn about this, the better we are at avoiding being manipulated.
• [34:58] - These tactics are also tools for good parenting. What is the end goal of these tools?
• [37:10] - Chase discusses some examples of the models he teaches.
• [39:41] - When it comes to confidence, people look at situations through a hierarchy lens.
• [41:10] - Chase shares the titles of his books and what they are about.

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It can be difficult to quantify the impact of good CISO or IT professionals. Protecting the network, infrastructure, and data is a constant effort and they've got to get it right 100% of the time. But the criminals breaking in only need to get it right once.

Today's guest is Raj Samani. Raj is the Chief Scientist for the cyber security firm Rapid7. He has assisted multiple law enforcement agencies in cybercrime cases and is a special advisor to the European Cybercrime Centre in The Hague. Raj has been recognized for his contributions to the computer security industry through numerous awards and has co-authored several books and has been a technical editor in others.

• [1:01] - Raj explains what he does for the cyber security firm, Rapid7, and how he got into the field.

• [3:40] - In the beginning of his career, cyber security was more of a hobby.

• [6:07] - There is a level of transparency, but Raj explains how things have to be absolutely certain before releasing information.

• [7:32] - Raj introduces the topic of cyber security as a service.

• [9:11] - Without the means to physically interrogate, it is hard to confirm theories about what is happening and who is doing it.

• [12:01] - "The sooner we collectively as an industry start to provide more transparency, I think the better we'll be."

• [13:57] - We see CISOs let go when a breach takes place. It is immature as an industry since there are no metrics to measure success.

• [16:54] - Raj shares the experience of the explosion of Covid-19 related scams.

• [20:40] - As security professionals, the job is never done.

• [21:51] - Raj compares educating your children of online safety to wearing a seatbelt in your car.

• [24:10] - The odds are certainly in favor of the cyber criminals.

• [26:48] - Raj explains the estimation of money saved by preventing attacks, but also explains that there's no true way to measure this.

• [28:20] - If we aren't reporting incidents, the government isn't going to do anything because we can't prove the impact.

• [30:29] - Because it is a global issue, international law enforcement collaboration is crucial.

• [34:17] - Now that cybercrime is so lucrative, they can actually pay for marketing and make their content much more believable than a simple email with a link.

• [36:30] - It is a constant case of cat and mouse.

• [40:32] - Raj does not use the word "hacker" to describe the individuals behind attacks. They are criminals.

• [42:18] - Raj highly recommends the book Cuckoo's Egg by Clifford Stoll.

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Today's guest is Bryan Seely, a world famous cyber security expert, ethical hacker, author, keynote speaker, and former US Marine. He is known for intercepting calls to the US Secret Service and FBI. We chat about why and how he did it and surprisingly why he didn't go to jail.

• [0:48] - Bryan shares his background, what he does now, and what he is famous for.

• [2:10] - To show how easily hacked and manipulated Google Maps was, Bryan changed the names of locations which didn't get their attention.

• [4:03] - At the time, the FBI didn't know that Bryan wiretapped them. Bryan explains how this was an issue and how he let them know.

• [6:14] - They didn't believe him and he explains how he proved it and what the major problems with their communications were.

• [8:03] - At no point was Bryan arrested, but he had to show how he managed to wiretap them.

• [10:00] - Bryan managed to record 40 calls.

• [11:26] - Because he had no ill intent, he told them what he was doing and how he did it to help prevent it happening by others, Bryan was not charged.

• [13:24] - Technically, Bryan didn't do anything that wasn't possible for anyone else to do. He didn't hack a system, but rather saw a logic flaw.

• [15:51] - There wasn't technically anything wrong. It was just designed in a way that could easily be exploited.

• [18:50] - The cost of just letting people know about a breach is high.

• [20:44] - Bryan believes that companies should be honest about breaches and what they will do to fix the problem.

• [23:41] - We don't intentionally broadcast our information or location, but it is easy to guess in many cases.

• [24:57] - There are little things that we do that we think are protecting us but are actually giving out more information than we should.

• [27:26] - Bryan shares some tips in keeping you protected, like turning off Bluetooth and wifi on your phone.

• [28:36] - Anyone can create a wifi network and name it anything, like Starbucks Wifi or Free Airport Wifi to make it easy to have people connect.

• [30:47] - Teach your kids how to be safe.

• [31:42] - Bryan primarily uses authenticator apps for MFA, but any kind is helpful.

• [35:20] - Bryan is currently writing another book and loves meeting people who have done great things for cyber security education.

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The cyber security circle of information will always have some human involvement and raising awareness in how systems were designed, developed, used, and abused is critical. Today's guest is Dr. Jessica Barker. Jessica is an award winning leader in the human side of cyber security and has delivered face to face awareness sessions to over 50,000 people. She is a best selling author, international keynote speaker, media commentator, and serves on numerous boards, including the UK government's Cyber Security Advisory Board.

• [1:00] - Jessica shares her background and her passion for educating people on cyber security.

• [2:34] - When it comes to personal experience, Jessica has not been a victim of a scam, but she has come close.

• [3:49] - Being vigilant is helpful but the right phish at the right time can catch any of us.

• [5:01] - Take a step back and talk to someone else. Seeing someone else's perspective is helpful.

• [6:43] - There's a fine line between scam indicators and marketing.

• [8:51] - There are always people involved. Jessica explains the elements of the human side of cyber security.

• [10:24] - There is an assumption that the younger generation don't care about cyber security, but it's not accurate.

• [13:14] - The majority of clients that Cygenta works with are corporate clients.

• [14:33] - Every organization has a security culture already, but what kind is it?

• [16:46] - Many departments within a company avoid cyber security and the security team and it creates an adversarial relationship and culture.

• [19:15] - Measuring the success of cyber security is a challenge.

• [20:57] - We need to consider our language when explaining cyber security attacks.

• [22:57] - Jessica's work primarily focuses on prevention.

• [28:20] - Chris shares the experience of seeing a problem but not knowing where it was coming from.

• [29:50] - It's important to mitigate risk while also not being so worried all the time.

• [30:57] - We all need education to help with critical thinking.

• [33:14] - Education also boosts people's confidence.

• [34:27] - It is important to have strong organizational values and the ability to tap into people's individual values.

• [36:01] - Cygenta has a free resource online called The Ultimate Guide to Cyber Security Culture.

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With the appearance of health taking focus in today's culture, many are persuaded to try extreme trends to achieve quick weight and health results. Conventional healthcare may not always have the answers we're looking for but it's important to not let our fears and concerns be exploited for someone else's profit.

Today's guest is Christy Harrison. Christy and a Registered Dietician Nutritionist, Certified Intuitive Eating Counselor, and a journalist who has been covering food, nutrition, and health for more than 20 years. She is the author of two books, The Wellness Trap and Anti-Diet and the producer and host of the podcasts Rethinking Wellness and Food Psych which has helped tens of thousands of people around the world think critically about diet and wellness and culture and develop a more peaceful relationship with food.

• [1:05] - Christy shares her background and what she specializes in as a Dietician Nutritionist.

• [2:19] - Christy describes her past experiences with disordered eating and combined her perspective with her journalism career.

• [5:15] - Through her own recovery, she discovered her passion for helping others at a large scale.

• [6:21] - This is not a substitute for physical or mental health advice.

• [7:20] - There is a long history of how our current societal focus on weight and body shape has evolved.

• [11:18] - As society developed an anti-fat approach, diets became trendy and scammy weight loss products became prevalent.

• [13:07] - There's a lot of motivation for scammers to make money in the health and wellness space as it is a huge industry.

• [14:22] - Christy shares some history on the first diet book and how we are currently seeing similar trends again.

• [17:03] - Watch out for anything that purports a product to be a cure-all.

• [19:16] - While there are problems with mainstream healthcare, anyone who turns fear into a sales pitch is a red flag.

• [22:02] - A lot of people in ads, especially on social media, are paid to promote a product that they probably have never tried.

• [23:14] - Be aware of the differences between real studies and anecdotal science-sounding claims.

• [26:32] - A problem with nutritional research is that it is mostly observational.

• [28:15] - It's not all down to the individual. We can certainly do things to make ourselves less susceptible, but the system needs to change.

• [29:35] - Unless it is coming from your own medical provider who knows you and your needs, be skeptical of medical information.

• [32:17] - Before adopting a health and wellness practice, you should do research.

• [33:39] - Check in with yourself on any emotional pull you have.

• [35:34] - There are also claims from scammers who will say that you have to feel worse to feel better, which isn't generally the case.

• [38:37] - Diet culture creates a yo-yo effect for a lot of people.

• [40:28] - Self efficacy is critical to mental health and dieting takes it away. They have a hugely negative psychological effect.

• [44:40] - Christy shares some things to consider before making changes to your diet.

• [46:42] - What are the things you have control over in your life? Don't demonize yourself for the choices you make when there isn't anything else you can choose.

• [47:56] - There isn't one solution for every single person.

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