This trialogue continues a series of discussions exploring the latest interdisciplinary research into tantric completion stage practices such as yogas of dream, sleep, and death.

Dr Tawni Tidwell is a biocultural anthropologist and doctor of traditional Tibetan medicine.

Dr Michael Sheehy is the Director of Research at the Contemplative Sciences Center in the Department of Religious Studies in the University of Virginia.

Dr Julian Schott is an Indologist, Tibetologist, and assistant professor at the University of Vienna.

In this episode, the panel explore the ethical and methodological challenges of the studying Buddhist tantra; consider the various agendas behind scientific research into meditation, gtummo, and dream yoga; and argue for the centring of human liberation alongside human wellness and profit motives.

Dr Sheehy presents his working model for achieving contemplative fluency across a range of meditation styles, suggests that scientific study of meditation can be seen as a type of cultural translation, and considers the use of etic frameworks and methods to study religious and cultural forms.

Dr Tidwell argues for the validity of subjective experience, Dr Schott points out the tensions within religious traditions, and the panel consider if neuroscience might one day teach Buddhism something new about itself.

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Topics include:

00:00 - Intro

02:11 - Why study tantra with science?

04:01 - Complexity of tantra

05:10 - Skills and transformations

05:50 - Michael’s meditation model of “instances and styles“

08:48 - Multi-modular styles and ngondro

11:17 - Contemplative fluency

13:58 - gTummo and overriding the autonomic nervous system

16:21 - 2 reasons why Vajrayāna is said to be the fast path

17:55 - Why is tantra so complex?

19:37 - Pushing to one’s limits is key to tantra

22:29 - 3 classic contemplative approaches in Buddhism

25:27 - Radical transformation and social transgression

27:56 - A tension within the tradition

29:03 - Changing practice along the path

31:04 - Sādhanā is not linear

34:25 - Critical challenges when studying tantra

35:41 - The importance of neurophenomenology

39:44 - Scientific vs traditional explanatory frameworks

43:28 - Relative and the absolute

46:08 - Transmitted blessings

48:07 - Trust in the traditions

50:33 - Moving beyond the traditions with science

52:38 - A second order, cultural translation

54:58 - Paradox of the paradigm

56:26 - Defending the etic perspective

58:06 - Multi-disciplinary teams

59:37 - The fundamental academic principle

01:01:58 - Pros and cons of the etic and emic

01:03:16- Will science improve the Buddhist tradition?

01:04:56 - Neuroplasticity and aging

01:06:50 - Reshaping Buddhism is imperative

01:09:26 - A cultural-religious looping effect

01:13:13 - Dream yoga training with VR

01:18:50 - Secular extraction approaches and making the traditions better

01:21:25 -MBSR and Healthy Minds

01:22:57 - Subjective experience is valid

1:25:16 - Human freedom beyond the social and political

01:31:59 - Admitting the religious aspect

01:34:07 - Prioritising human freedom

01:35:48 - A reflexive process

01:37:09 - Is scientific study for the good?

01:38:30 - Future episode plans

Previous panel discussions:

- https://www.guruviking.com/search?q=sheehy

Previous episodes with Dr Julian Schott:

- https://www.guruviking.com/search?q=schott

To find our more about the panel, visit:

- https://michaelrsheehy.com/

- https://centerhealthyminds.org/about/people/tawni-tidwell

- https://stb.univie.ac.at/en/about-us/team/julian-schott/user/schottj85/inum/1083/backpid/198178/

For more interviews, videos, and more visit:

- https://www.guruviking.com

Music ‘Deva Dasi’ by Steve James