Here is my conversation with Charles Murray (of The Bell Curve fame) about his new book, Facing Reality: Two Truths about Race in America. We review the argument of his book—that the "American Creed" of fair play and equal treatment for all is imperiled by a failure to reckon with the actual differences across racial groups in measured intelligence and participation in violent crime. We explore the evidence for his claim about racial differences, the extent to which these facts are being denied, and the plausibility of his concern that said denial threatens to undermine the republic. We also discuss the effectiveness of policy interventions aimed at reducing racial disparities.

As always, I’m curious to know what you think.

0:00 Intro

1:37 How Charles deals with his notoriety

5:26 Charles's new book, Facing Reality: Two Truths about Race in America

13:49 Grappling with the fact of group disparities

21:04 Threats from the left, threats from the right

27:33 The shift in white attitudes toward race since the 1950s

35:11 What would happen if white people revolted?

41:13 Charles: Black people are not genetically inferior

50:36 Why small differences in ability can have major consequences

54:29 Charles: We need universal, not race-based, public policy solutions

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