Stretchy definitions of ‘Nationalism’ can be a useful political tool, says Nick Spencer, senior fellow at Theos Think Tank. People can give a ‘thin’ definition while their actions suggest something ‘thicker’ and more like 19th century definitions. But all Christians want their country run according to Christian values, and no government can avoid having a coercive dimension. Nick gives us a vision of Christian engagement in politics that navigates through the tricky waters of coercion vs. persuasion and offers some much-needed wisdom in the conversation.

"It is a Catholic axiom that in order to lead someone away from error, you must recognize the truth that gives power to the error."

Thus writes Professor Colt Anderson in Faith, Nationalism, and the Future of Liberal Democracy (University of Notre Dame Press, 2021). In this episode, we ask him how we can take that insight and use it to understand nationalism, especially Catholic nationalism. Anderson is clear that he thinks it is an error. But it also teaches us important things about the priority of the local. Thanks to Jamie Maule for sound engineering!

The power of the cross is weakness, according to the apostle Paul. How does that idea translate into the dog-eat-dog world of politics?

In this episode we interview Dr. Mike Gorman, Raymond E. Brown Professor of Biblical Studies and Theology at St. Mary's Seminary and University. He shares the content of a forthcoming book which explores, among other things, what the apostle Paul might say to the christian nationalist movement. This is a link to the article by Barney mentioned in the episode:

• Love is Not an Executive Order.

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In this episode we have the privilege speaking with Prof Stanley Hauerwas. He challenges the typical categories used in conversations about 'christian nationalism' and pushes us to redefine what it means to be political.

What is the difference between patriotism and nationalism? Is one of them acceptable (even desirable) from a Christian point of view?

In this episode we interview James Walters, Professor at the London School of Economics. As an ordained priest in the Church of England, he is the first person we've interviewed who belongs to an established state church. This gives him a perspective somewhat different from the American one in which separation of church and state is the assumed norm.

Not every Christian agrees on what a “Christian government” should look like. Whoever is in power will have to decide what form of Christianity to implement, and they are likely to claim it is the only valid kind.

In this episode we chat with Elizabeth Bruenig, journalist for The Atlantic, on Christian Nationalism in the US. Does it really represent the values shared by all Christians? Does it have the right to speak in the name of “Christianity”?

Thanks to Jamie Maule for sound engineering!

Professor William Cavanaugh, author of Migrations of the Holy and The Uses of Idolatry, weighs in on the topic of nationalism. He argues that nationalism is a religion that rivals Christianity and is therefore not compatible with it.

Thanks to Jamie Maule for sound engineering!

How can national constitutions persecute religious minorities? What would motivate them to do so, and is this motivation really Christian? These questions and others are addressed by Marietta van der Tol in her book, Constitutional Intolerance (CUP, 2025). In this episode, Barney and Austin draw out some of Marietta’s key insights not only in this book but other of her publications.

Thanks to Jamie Maule for sound engineering!

In this episode, Austin & Barney discuss the key takeaways and insights from the series on Exvangelicalism, and introduce the topic of our next series: Christian Nationalism!

Watch this space for interviews with world experts across the spectrum of political opinions on this urgent and controversial topic!

Thanks to Jamie Maule for sound engineering!

Next up in our Exvangelicalism series, Karen Swallow Prior outlines some of the images that have shaped the social imaginary of evangelicals—for good and ill—and how that has impacted the experiences of exvangelicals .

She is the author of The Evangelical Imagination: How Stories, Images, and Metaphors Created a Culture in Crisis (Brazos, 2024).