Welcome to episode 32 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives. 

This bonus episode showcases an interview between Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh and journalist Jo Confino from before Christmas 2011, during the winter retreat in Plum Village. It begins with a short introduction by Jo and Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu. 

This is a conversation about our relationship with Mother Earth, the need to move beyond the idea of ‘environment’, and falling back in love with our life-giving planet. 

Thich Nhat Hanh talks about the ‘Buddha nature’; the Earth as a Bodhisattva; meditation as active awakening, and practical ways to bring about a collective awakening; the need for a cosmic religion not based on Dharma or belief; producing our own right view; dogmatism as a cause for separation and war; the most necessary teachings for our times; mindful and compassionate business; transforming suffering; collective awakening; and connecting to the Earth through mindfulness. Thay also further develops on his interest in science, and the benefits of a retreat for mindfulness practitioners and scientists. 

The interview also includes important advice to help activists maintain their motivation and peace amid chaos, and how to suffer less in order to help more.

Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/

And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/ 

With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/

List of resources

Love Letter to the Earth
https://www.parallax.org/product/love-letter-to-the-earth/ 

Antoine Lavoisier
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_Lavoisier 

Paul Tillich
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Tillich

Bodhisattva
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva  

Shakyamuni Buddha
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautama_Buddha 

Journalist Jo Confino Interviews Thich Nhat Hanh: Falling Back in Love with Mother Earth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-TZlJW2FEs 

‘Beyond Environment: Falling Back in Love with Mother Earth’
https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/zen-thich-naht-hanh-buddhidm-business-values 

Dharma Talks: ‘The Ground of Right View’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-ground-of-right-view-2/ 

Quotes

“If you look into the Milky Way, we see that there are millions of stars and each star can be a Buddha, like the sun above us is the real Buddha, a Buddha that can provide light and warmth, a Buddha that can offer life. So it is possible for us to conceive Buddha [as] not [being] in the form of a person.”

“If you look around deeply, you realize that there isn’t anything as beautiful as our planet Earth. And that is why we should not try to abandon this beautiful planet, searching for something far away – whether that is called Pure Land, the Kingdom of God, or anything. And if we gain that insight, we see that the Earth is not only the environment; everything is us, and by taking care of the Earth we take care of ourselves.”

“In Buddhism, we speak of meditation as an active awakening. To awake is to be awake to something. To be awake to the fact that the Earth is in danger and living species on Earth are also in danger. And that should be a collective awakening, in order to have enough strength for a change.” 

“Scientists are motivated by a desire to understand better, and Buddhist practitioners are also motivated by that kind of desire. But, in Buddhism, we keep in mind that understanding could help us suffer less. Any kind of understanding, true understanding, will help us suffer less. And the Buddhist tradition has elaborated ways of practicing in order to help people to suffer less. And in the process, they have found out many things about themselves and the world. They don’t use the scientific method, but they have a lot of insight and a lot of experiences. And I think they can share it with other people, including scientists.” 

“There are plenty of us who are activists, who are eager to do something. And we should go this way: we should begin with ourselves. We should begin with removing our wrong views, so that we can suffer less. And when we suffer less, we can be more helpful. We can help people to change.” 

“If you transcend the notion of birth and death, you are able to transcend the notion of being and non-being. And you know that to be or not to be, that’s no longer the question.”

“When I drink tea, this is a wonderful moment. You do not need a lot of power or fame or money to be happy. Mindfulness can help you to be happy in the here and now; every moment can be a happy moment. Set an example and help people to do the same. Take a few minutes to experiment to see the truth.”

“The Earth cannot be described either by the notion of matter or mind, which are just ideas, two faces of the same reality. That pine tree is not just matter, as it possesses a sense of knowing. A dust particle is not just matter since each of its atoms has intelligence and is a living reality.”

“When we recognise the virtues, the talent, the beauty of Mother Earth, something is born in us; some kind of connection, of love is born.

“We want to be connected. That is the meaning of love: to be at one. When you love someone, you want to say, ‘I need you, I take refuge in you.’ You do anything for the benefit of the Earth and the Earth will do anything for your wellbeing.”