Award-winning writers and longtime friends Vauhini Vara and Karan Mahajan join co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V. V. Ganeshananthan to discuss Vara’s recent New Yorker essay “What If Readers Like AI-Generated Fiction?” Vara explains recent research by scientist Tuhin Chakrabarty, who has attempted to fine-tune large language models to produce better writing by feeding them authors’ entire oeuvres. She considers what it means that when Chakrabarty ran the results by some creative writing graduate students, they preferred AI imitations of writers like Junot Diaz, Sigrid Nunez, and Tony Tulathimutte to the writers themselves, or could not tell the difference. She and Mahajan talk about their decades-long connection and familiarity with each other’s writing. They muse on what it means that, when Vara talked Chakrabarty into letting her compete with a large language model, even Mahajan could not separate her original work from what it produced. Mahajan and Vara debate ways in which this technology will and won’t change how literature is written and received, the importance of style, reading as a collective experience, and if there is anything AI will never be able to capture about writing. Vara reads from the essay. 

To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/

This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan and Whitney Terrell.

Vauhini Vara

• “What If Readers Like A.I.-Generated Fiction?” | The New Yorker 
• Searches: Selfhood in the Digital Age
• This Is Salvaged
• The Immortal King Rao

Karan Mahajan

• The Complex
• The Association of Small Bombs
• Family Planning

Others:

• Pedro Paramo by Juan Rulfo
• Beloved by Toni Morrison
• “In the Penal Colony” by Franz Kafka
• Ngugi wa Thiong'o

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Bestselling and award-winning writer Matthew Pearl joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his new novel The Award. Pearl explores the relationship between cultural prizes and ideas of nationhood, as well as imposter syndrome and external validation, like MFAs, literary awards, and being seen writing in coffeeshops by and with other writers. He reflects on developing the character of David Trent, an aspiring young writer in Cambridge, Massachusetts, where Pearl himself formerly lived and participated in cafe culture. He talks about the ethical lines David is willing to cross to achieve success and how he rationalizes these choices to himself. He also explains the larger-than-life character of Silas Hale, the famous and mercurial novelist who lives downstairs from David, controls their shared thermostat, and has no interest in mentoring his young neighbor. Pearl considers how David’s life changes when he publishes a book and wins a prize. He reads from The Award.

This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan and Whitney Terrell.

Matthew Pearl

●    The Award

●    Save Our Souls: The True Story of a Castaway Family, Treachery, and Murder

●    The Taking of Jemima Boone: Colonial Settlers, Tribal Nations, and the Kidnap That Shaped America

●    The Dante Chamber

●    The Last Bookaneer

●    The Technologists

●    The Last Dickens

●    The Poe Shadow

●    The Dante Club

Others:

●    Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 7, Episode 19: Jacinda Townsend and James Bernard Short on American Fiction

●    Erasure by Percival Everett

●    Rabbit, Run by John Updike

●    The Plot by Jean Hanff Korelitz

●    The Wife by Meg Wolitzer

●    Yellowface by R.F. Kuang

●    The Other Black Girl by Zakiya Dalila Harris

● Young Lions Fiction Award | The New York Public Library

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Acclaimed fiction writer and long-time creative writing professor Elizabeth McCracken joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V. V. Ganeshananthan to discuss her ninth book and first volume about craft, A Long Game: Notes on Writing Fiction. McCracken reflects on her long-held reluctance to attempt such a project and the impossibility of creating absolute rules for writing. She explains why she doesn’t believe in “show don’t tell,” “write what you know,” “write every day,” and other classic canards of craft. McCracken talks about the importance of imagining characters’ physicality; well-executed present tense; how time can shape narrative; justifying flashbacks; and writing outside one’s own identity. She reads from A Long Game. 

To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/

This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan and Whitney Terrell.

Elizabeth McCracken

• A Long Game: Notes on Writing Fiction
• The Hero of This Book
• The Souvenir Museum
• Bowlaway
• Thunderstruck & Other Stories
• An Exact Replica of a Figment of My Imagination
• Niagara Falls All Over Again
• The Giant’s House
• Here's Your Hat What's Your Hurry?

Others:

• Tinkers by Paul Harding
• The Gates of the Alamo by Stephen Harrigan
• Affliction by Russell Banks
• Gilligan’s Island
• Allan Gurganus

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2025 Maya Angelou Book Award winner Alison C. Rollins joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V. V. Ganeshananthan to discuss her 2024 poetry collection Black Bell. She explores the history and symbolism of a bell-laden iron device used to control and torture enslaved people and describes the replica she created after studying metalworking. She also recounts the story of Harriet Jacobs, who spent seven years hidden in her grandmother’s attic before escaping slavery. Rollins talks about how her poems engage in call and response with other texts, including the music of Sun Ra and Stevie Wonder and images connected to ornithology, anatomy, Afrofuturism, and the history of slavery. She reflects on who has historically been granted the title of “poet” in America and discusses the archival research behind her writing. Rollins rings a glass bell and reads several poems from Black Bell.

To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/

This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan, Whitney Terrell, Amelia Fisher, Victoria Freisner, Wil Lasater, and S E Walker.

Alison C. Rollins

• Black Bell
• Library of Small Catastrophes

Others:

• Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl by Harriet Jacobs
• The Divine Comedy - Inferno, Purgatorio, Paradiso by Dante Alighieri
• The Chronicles of Narnia by C.S. Lewis
• The Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien
• Wu - Tang Clan - Enter The Wu - Tang (36 Chambers) [Full Album Mix]

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Pulitzer Prize finalist Sven Beckert joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to talk about his new book, Capitalism: A Global History. Beckert describes capitalism as an ongoing process comparable in significance to geological forces; he examines the way it shapes our interactions with the world and notes its presence in every aspect of daily life. He recounts how it has been influenced and defined for the past thousand years by people all over the world, ranging from merchants to CEOs to rebels resisting enslavement. He unpacks capitalism’s devastating global effects as well as its role in technological innovation and revolution. He explains that capitalism is a product of not only cities, but also the countryside. Finally, he addresses the idea that capitalism breeds inequality and argues for more nuance in understanding it as a human-made order that can be changed. He reads from Capitalism.

To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/

This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan, Whitney Terrell, MaryClaire Dunagan, Emani Guerin, and Sarah Feldmann.

Sven Beckert

• Capitalism: A Global History
• Empire of Cotton: A Global History
• American Capitalism: New Histories
• Global History, Globally: Research and Practice Around the World
• The American Bourgeoisie: Distinction and Identity in the Nineteenth Century
• The Monied Metropolis: New York City and the Consolidation of the American Bourgeoisie, 1850-1896

Others:

• Gravity’s Rainbow by Thomas Pynchon
• Capitalism named one of 100 NYT Notable Books for 2025

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Journalist Jacob Silverman joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to talk about his new book, Gilded Rage: Elon Musk and the Radicalization of Silicon Valley. He discusses the rightward shift in ideology among leading tech giants and their companies, partially attributing the change to an interest in doing business with governments, including the U.S. and Israel. He speaks about the influence of Saudi Arabian wealth on the U.S. tech industry and how Saudi Arabia uses access to cutting-edge technology to remain in power and conduct mass surveillance on its people. Silverman addresses the calculated way today’s tech leaders have taken control of the idea economy as they increasingly interfere with what information the public sees, such as Elon Musk’s takeover of Twitter (now X). He gives examples of imagined and attempted tech-utopias, discussing communities such as California Forever and Próspera and their impacts. Silverman also discusses the alliance between the tech right and discontented moderate Democrats in San Francisco, explaining their involvement in recall politics and the transactional nature of tech politics. He reads an excerpt from Gilded Rage.

To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/

This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan, Whitney Terrell, Emma Baxley, Elleanora Meman, Hope Wampler, and Brianna Wilson. 

Jacob Silverman

Gilded Rage: Elon Musk and the Radicalization of Silicon Valley

“How Shaun Maguire Became Silicon Valley's Most MAGA Firebrand,” Business Insider

Easy Money: Cryptocurrency, Casino Capitalism, and the Golden Age of Fraud

Terms of Service: Social Media and the Price of Constant Connection

Others:

California Forever

The Diversity Myth by Peter Thiel & David Sacks

‘Go home’: Honduran islanders fight against crypto colonialists| The Guardian 

Elon Musk

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Poet and essayist Kathryn Nuernberger joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to talk about her new collection of lyric essays, Held: Essays in Belonging, which is about symbiotic mutualisms, and grief and joy in an era of worsening climate change. She discusses COP30, the United Nations climate gathering currently underway in Brazil, and considers the global failure to keep warming below 1.5 °C. She reflects on the nature of symbiotic relationships and offers several examples, noting that over several cycles even parasitic relationships might achieve the balance of mutualism. Nuernberger places her work in the larger tradition of climate and nature writing, which previously tended to celebration and in recent years has turned more elegiac, and also talks about writing personal grief in relation to societal grief. She explains new vocabulary developed to address emerging climate concerns and emotions and identifies several concepts that need new words. She reads an excerpt from Held.

To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/

This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan, Whitney Terrell, Graham Ballard, Courtenay Kantanka, Katelyn Koenig, and Bayleigh Williams.

Kathryn Nuernberger

Held: Essays in Belonging

The Witch of Eye

Rue

Brief Interviews with the Romantic Past

The End of Pink

Rag & Bone

Others:

The Bureau of Linguistical Reality

Cop30 Coverage | The Guardian 

The Aquarium by Phillip Henry Gosse

John Hickel

Raphel Lemkin

Annie Dillard 

Barry Lopez

The End of Nature by Bill McKibben 

Edward Abbey

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Translator Ottilie Mulzet joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to talk about her award-winning translations of Nobel Prize winner László Krasznahorkai’s work. Mulzet, who was born in Canada and now lives in the Czech Republic, discusses how she learned Hungarian and began working with Krasznahorkai. She explains the humor in his novels and how his background in music shapes his prose. Mulzet also reflects on the timeliness of his writing and the breadth of his influences, including Europe and Asia more broadly. She considers its political context, including the Hungarian Prime Minister Victor Orbán’s recent Kulturkampf, or efforts to control Hungarian cultural production. Mulzet reads an excerpt from Herscht 07769, which takes its title from the protagonist’s decision to write German Chancellor Angela Merkel a letter using only his name and postcode as a return address.

To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/

This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan, Whitney Terrell, Amelia Fisher, Victoria Freisner, Wil Lasater, and S E Walker.

Ottilie Mulzet's Translations of László Krasznahorkai

Herscht 07769

A Mountain to the North, a Lake to the South, Paths to the West, a River to the East

Seiobo There Below

Destruction and Sorrow beneath the Heavens: Reportage

Baron Wenckheim's Homecoming

The World Goes On

Animalinside

Others:

Under a Pannonian Sky: Ten Women Poets from Hungary edited by Ottilie Mulzet

George Szirtes

"An Angel Passed Above Us" | The Yale Review 

Hungarian Translators House

"Herscht 07769 by László Krasznahorkai review – sinister cosmic visions" | The Guardian 

"Laszlo Krasznahorkai’s Novels Find a U.S. Audience" | The New York Times

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Fiction writer Max Delsohn joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his debut short story collection, Crawl, which features a number of transmasculine characters. Delsohn addresses the Trump administration’s broad and vicious assault on transgender Americans, from advertising misinformation to attacks on higher education. Given pending legislation, he considers how shifting dynamics at the state level affect the decisions trans people and their families are making to find safety. Delsohn also reflects on intra-community violence and trans men’s position as minorities within the queer community. He considers how those with trans identities navigate misinterpretation, explanation, and other social pressures from cisgender people. He recounts how his experiences with the queer community in 2010’s Seattle, where many of his stories are set, have influenced his work. Delsohn talks about the importance of access to gender-affirming care and reads a related excerpt of “The Machine,” from Crawl. 

To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/

This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan, Whitney Terrell, MaryClaire Dunagan, Emani Guerin, and Sarah Feldmann.

Max Delsohn

Crawl. 

“18 or 34 Miles From Perennial Square,”

“We Do Not Belong Everywhere,”

“Thinking Like The Knight,”

Others:

The Tragedy of Heterosexuality  by Jane Ward

On Liking Women by Andrea Long Chu

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Graphic novelist Ben Passmore joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his new graphic novel Black Arms To Hold You Up: A History of Black Resistance. Passmore explains the mix of personal reflection and historical storytelling in the book which follows the main character, a version of himself, time-traveling through a century of the Black radical tradition. Passmore talks about imagining a fictional self visiting Black historical figures and spotlights Assata Shakur, a well known member of the Black Liberation Army, who passed away last month. Passmore reflects on Shakur’s life and considers how her story highlights the broader struggles and resilience of Black activists whose work is marginalized in mainstream histories. He emphasizes that the book focuses on less prominent figures within the Black radical tradition, providing a corrective to previous whitewashed narratives. He talks about activists and thinkers interested in goals ranging from liberation to reform, as well as community-based forms of resistance and education. Passmore reads from Black Arms To Hold You Up.

To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/

This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan, Whitney Terrell, Bri Wilson, Emma Baxley, Hope Wampler, and Elly Meman.

Ben Passmore

Black Arms to Hold You Up

Sports is Hell

Your Black Friend and Other Strangers

Others:

We Will Return In The Whirlwind Black Radical Organizations 1960-1975 by Muhammad Ahmad — Charles H. Kerr Publishing

Going to the Territory

Assata

Assata Shakur, an icon of Black liberation who was exiled to Cuba, dies aged 78

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