Journalist Jacob Silverman joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to talk about his new book, Gilded Rage: Elon Musk and the Radicalization of Silicon Valley. He discusses the rightward shift in ideology among leading tech giants and their companies, partially attributing the change to an interest in doing business with governments, including the U.S. and Israel. He speaks about the influence of Saudi Arabian wealth on the U.S. tech industry and how Saudi Arabia uses access to cutting-edge technology to remain in power and conduct mass surveillance on its people. Silverman addresses the calculated way today’s tech leaders have taken control of the idea economy as they increasingly interfere with what information the public sees, such as Elon Musk’s takeover of Twitter (now X). He gives examples of imagined and attempted tech-utopias, discussing communities such as California Forever and Próspera and their impacts. Silverman also discusses the alliance between the tech right and discontented moderate Democrats in San Francisco, explaining their involvement in recall politics and the transactional nature of tech politics. He reads an excerpt from Gilded Rage.

To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/

This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan, Whitney Terrell, Emma Baxley, Elleanora Meman, Hope Wampler, and Brianna Wilson. 

Jacob Silverman

Gilded Rage: Elon Musk and the Radicalization of Silicon Valley

“How Shaun Maguire Became Silicon Valley's Most MAGA Firebrand,” Business Insider

Easy Money: Cryptocurrency, Casino Capitalism, and the Golden Age of Fraud

Terms of Service: Social Media and the Price of Constant Connection

Others:

California Forever

The Diversity Myth by Peter Thiel & David Sacks

‘Go home’: Honduran islanders fight against crypto colonialists| The Guardian 

Elon Musk

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Poet and essayist Kathryn Nuernberger joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to talk about her new collection of lyric essays, Held: Essays in Belonging, which is about symbiotic mutualisms, and grief and joy in an era of worsening climate change. She discusses COP30, the United Nations climate gathering currently underway in Brazil, and considers the global failure to keep warming below 1.5 °C. She reflects on the nature of symbiotic relationships and offers several examples, noting that over several cycles even parasitic relationships might achieve the balance of mutualism. Nuernberger places her work in the larger tradition of climate and nature writing, which previously tended to celebration and in recent years has turned more elegiac, and also talks about writing personal grief in relation to societal grief. She explains new vocabulary developed to address emerging climate concerns and emotions and identifies several concepts that need new words. She reads an excerpt from Held.

To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/

This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan, Whitney Terrell, Graham Ballard, Courtenay Kantanka, Katelyn Koenig, and Bayleigh Williams.

Kathryn Nuernberger

Held: Essays in Belonging

The Witch of Eye

Rue

Brief Interviews with the Romantic Past

The End of Pink

Rag & Bone

Others:

The Bureau of Linguistical Reality

Cop30 Coverage | The Guardian 

The Aquarium by Phillip Henry Gosse

John Hickel

Raphel Lemkin

Annie Dillard 

Barry Lopez

The End of Nature by Bill McKibben 

Edward Abbey

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Translator Ottilie Mulzet joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to talk about her award-winning translations of Nobel Prize winner László Krasznahorkai’s work. Mulzet, who was born in Canada and now lives in the Czech Republic, discusses how she learned Hungarian and began working with Krasznahorkai. She explains the humor in his novels and how his background in music shapes his prose. Mulzet also reflects on the timeliness of his writing and the breadth of his influences, including Europe and Asia more broadly. She considers its political context, including the Hungarian Prime Minister Victor Orbán’s recent Kulturkampf, or efforts to control Hungarian cultural production. Mulzet reads an excerpt from Herscht 07769, which takes its title from the protagonist’s decision to write German Chancellor Angela Merkel a letter using only his name and postcode as a return address.

To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/

This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan, Whitney Terrell, Amelia Fisher, Victoria Freisner, Wil Lasater, and S E Walker.

Ottilie Mulzet's Translations of László Krasznahorkai

Herscht 07769

A Mountain to the North, a Lake to the South, Paths to the West, a River to the East

Seiobo There Below

Destruction and Sorrow beneath the Heavens: Reportage

Baron Wenckheim's Homecoming

The World Goes On

Animalinside

Others:

Under a Pannonian Sky: Ten Women Poets from Hungary edited by Ottilie Mulzet

George Szirtes

"An Angel Passed Above Us" | The Yale Review 

Hungarian Translators House

"Herscht 07769 by László Krasznahorkai review – sinister cosmic visions" | The Guardian 

"Laszlo Krasznahorkai’s Novels Find a U.S. Audience" | The New York Times

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Fiction writer Max Delsohn joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his debut short story collection, Crawl, which features a number of transmasculine characters. Delsohn addresses the Trump administration’s broad and vicious assault on transgender Americans, from advertising misinformation to attacks on higher education. Given pending legislation, he considers how shifting dynamics at the state level affect the decisions trans people and their families are making to find safety. Delsohn also reflects on intra-community violence and trans men’s position as minorities within the queer community. He considers how those with trans identities navigate misinterpretation, explanation, and other social pressures from cisgender people. He recounts how his experiences with the queer community in 2010’s Seattle, where many of his stories are set, have influenced his work. Delsohn talks about the importance of access to gender-affirming care and reads a related excerpt of “The Machine,” from Crawl. 

To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/

This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan, Whitney Terrell, MaryClaire Dunagan, Emani Guerin, and Sarah Feldmann.

Max Delsohn

Crawl. 

“18 or 34 Miles From Perennial Square,”

“We Do Not Belong Everywhere,”

“Thinking Like The Knight,”

Others:

The Tragedy of Heterosexuality  by Jane Ward

On Liking Women by Andrea Long Chu

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Graphic novelist Ben Passmore joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his new graphic novel Black Arms To Hold You Up: A History of Black Resistance. Passmore explains the mix of personal reflection and historical storytelling in the book which follows the main character, a version of himself, time-traveling through a century of the Black radical tradition. Passmore talks about imagining a fictional self visiting Black historical figures and spotlights Assata Shakur, a well known member of the Black Liberation Army, who passed away last month. Passmore reflects on Shakur’s life and considers how her story highlights the broader struggles and resilience of Black activists whose work is marginalized in mainstream histories. He emphasizes that the book focuses on less prominent figures within the Black radical tradition, providing a corrective to previous whitewashed narratives. He talks about activists and thinkers interested in goals ranging from liberation to reform, as well as community-based forms of resistance and education. Passmore reads from Black Arms To Hold You Up.

To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/

This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan, Whitney Terrell, Bri Wilson, Emma Baxley, Hope Wampler, and Elly Meman.

Ben Passmore

Black Arms to Hold You Up

Sports is Hell

Your Black Friend and Other Strangers

Others:

We Will Return In The Whirlwind Black Radical Organizations 1960-1975 by Muhammad Ahmad — Charles H. Kerr Publishing

Going to the Territory

Assata

Assata Shakur, an icon of Black liberation who was exiled to Cuba, dies aged 78

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New Yorker staff writer Jelani Cobb joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his new essay collection, Three or More is a Riot: Notes on How We Got Here: 2012-2025. Cobb recalls how he began the project by trying to understand how George Zimmerman’s killing of unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin in 2012 set the tone for the era to come. Cobb considers how history’s exceptions skew narratives, so that writers miss the bigger picture. He reflects on how discourse about race shifted between the Obama, Trump, and Biden administrations and considers the juxtaposition of Martin’s murder with Obama’s presidency. Cobb also speaks on the significance of transparency in journalism, calling for reporters to show their work to reinforce public trust. He explains his preference for a lowercase “b” in “black” as a racial term, given that the word is not a proper noun, does not designate a nationality, and that capitalization may perpetuate inaccurate racial ideologies. Cobb reads from Three or More Is a Riot.

To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/

This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan, Whitney Terrell, and Bri Wilson, Emma Baxley, Hope Wampler, and Elly Meman.

Jelani Cobb

Three or More Is a Riot: Notes on How We Got Here: 2012-2025

The Matter of Black Lives: Writing from The New Yorker, edited with David Remnick

The Essential Kerner Commission Report, edited with Matthew Guariglia

The Substance of Hope: Barack Obama and the Paradox of Progress

The Devil and Dave Chappelle and Other Essays

To the Break of Dawn: A Freestyle on the Hip Hop Aesthetic

"Lessons of Later-in-Life Fatherhood" | The New Yorker, June 14, 2025

Full text of Jelani Cobb's 2025 Reuters Memorial Lecture: Trust Issues. Credibility, Credulity and Journalism in a Time of Crisis 

Others:

Lincoln 

Django Unchained

Gwen Ifill

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Acclaimed fiction writer and essayist Edwidge Danticat joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss her new essay collection We’re Alone. Danticat reflects on misinformation and xenophobic rhetoric, such as Trump’s false 2024 debate claim about Haitian immigrants eating pets in Springfield, Ohio, and how that type of language and propaganda has broadened during Trump’s second term to include even more immigrant communities. She recounts what she has learned about conditions in prisons and detention centers during her visits there and also considers today’s immigration policies, including the Trump administration’s attempts to end Temporary Protected Status for Haitian immigrants and how deliberately humiliating immigrants not only hurts them, but also deters others considering crossing borders. Danticat describes her connection to Haiti and the ways natural disasters can unexpectedly bring people together as well as how these disasters are tied to migration. She reflects on political instability in Haiti, the meaning behind the title of her new book, and how writers like Toni Morrison, Audre Lorde, Jean Rhys and Paule Marshall shaped her thinking and writing process. Danticat reads from We’re Alone. 

To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/

This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan, Whitney Terrell, Amelia Fisher, Victoria Freisner, Wil Lasater, and S E Walker.

Edwidge Danticat

We're Alone

Create Dangerously

Breath, Eyes, Memory

Brother, I'm Dying

Others:

Jamaica kincaid (@virtuouspomona) • Instagram photos and videos

Rootedness: The Ancestor as Foundation | Black Women Writers (1950-1980)

The Collected Poems of Audre Lorde

Dany Laferrière

Wide Sargasso Sea by Jean Rhys

Immigrants can have ponies | Seinfeld (1989)

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Fiction writer Yiming Ma joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his new novel These Memories Do Not Belong To Us. Ma, who was born in Shanghai and visited China frequently after immigrating to the U.S. and Canada, talks about how terrifyingly easy it can be to live in a society in which censorship is the default, and the dangers of self-censorship. Ma, who has an MBA, also reflects on the gap between how the tech and business worlds discuss artificial intelligence versus his peers in the arts. He explains how he developed the protagonist of his novel, a young man who struggles to decide what to do with an inheritance of forbidden memories; reflects on how his book’s structure, which moves between those memories, works as a “constellation novel,” in the tradition of Olga Tokarczuk; and considers how his characters demonstrate survival as a form of resistance. He reads from These Memories Do Not Belong To Us.

To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/

This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan, Whitney Terrell, and Moss Terrell.

Yiming Ma

These Memories Do Not Belong to Us

"When fear silences the writer" - The Globe and Mail 

Others:

Robot: Mere Machine to Transcendent Mind by Hans Moravec

Flights by Olga Tokarczuk

“The Purloined Letter” by Edgar Allan Poe

"Mirrors, Memories, Rebellions: An Interview with Yiming Ma” Chicago Review of Books 

Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 8, Episode 51: Omar El Akkad on Gaza and Western Empire

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Journalist Caleb Gayle joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his new book Black Moses: A Saga of Ambition and the Fight for a Black State, which recounts the efforts of Edward McCabe, a Black settler who became a prominent politician in the late 1800s and spearheaded a mission to establish a majority-Black state in the American West. Gayle sets the scene of McCabe’s upbringing as a free Black man on the East Coast and his move across the country to majority-Black towns in Kansas and Oklahoma. Gayle also talks about how Black settlers navigated the challenges of the supposed promised land, including bleak weather and the machinations of white politicians. Despite great difficulties, Gayle explains, McCabe persisted, and while his dreamed-of state never came to fruition, his legacy is visible in some Western towns even today. Gayle reads from Black Moses: A Saga of Ambition and the Fight for a Black State. 

To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/

This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan, Whitney Terrell, and Moss Terrell.

Caleb Gayle

Black Moses: A Saga of Ambition and the Fight for a Black State

We Refuse to Forget: A True Story of Black Creeks, American Identity, and Power

What Was the Tulsa Race Massacre of 1921?

Others:

Victor LaValle’s Lone Women

Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 6, Episode 25: "Alone on the Range: Victor LaValle on Lone Women’s Homesteaders, History, and Horror"

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Writer Omar El Akkad joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his recent nonfiction book, One Day, Everyone Will Have Always Been Against This, which was just nominated for the National Book Award in nonfiction. El Akkad talks about developing the arc of the book, which addresses how Israel’s genocide in Gaza led to his “breaking away from the notion that the polite, Western liberal ever stod for anything at all.” He explains how he conceptualized the West as a young man moving from Egypt to Qatar to Canada and finally the U.S. He also talks about how he can no longer vote for Democrats simply because they are “the lesser evil.” He reflects on how to talk to children about naming and understanding the world as it really is. El Akkad reads from One Day, Everyone Will Have Always Been Against This. 

To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/

This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan, Whitney Terrell, and Moss Terrell.

Omar El Akkad

One Day, Everyone Will Have Always Been Against This

What Strange Paradise

American War

Omar El Akkad on Genocide, Complicit Liberals, and the Terrible Wrath of the West | Literary Hub

Omar El Akkad on X: "One day, when it's safe, when there's no personal downside to calling a thing what it is, when it's too late to hold anyone accountable, everyone will have always been against this."

Others:

Suzanne Nossel, PEN America Leader, to Leave Embattled Organization - The New York Times (October 31, 2024)

A Campus for All | Faculty & Academic Affairs (University of Minnesota)

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