Welcome back to First Principles. I’m your host, Rohin Dharmakumar.

Thank you for listening to us. We’re thankful that you choose to spend a few hours with us each week!

Today we have a “supercut” episode. Normally our conversations go deep with one specific guest, but every now and then we zoom out and go broad by stitching together a multi-guest conversation. And the invisible thread that connects the conversations with 5 founders we picked for today is company culture.

What’s the best way to empower your talent? What do founders expect from employees? And how do they build their company culture?

This is where it gets interesting. In most cases, our guests have differing opinions on these subjects. But while putting this episode together, we kept encountering one word – or a substitute for it, in some cases. 

And that was, patience. 

Patience in the way that they give feedback to their employees. Patience in investing in your employees. Building this patience not just within themselves, but the entire organization. 

There are some very interesting perspectives in this episode on how these founders approach and practice patience, among other principles of leadership and management. 

Here’s a rundown of our guests in this episode: 

First up, we have Krish Subramanian of Chargebee, who has a simple and powerful dictum, “Move the chairs and get out of the way of good people.” At Chargebee, you wouldn’t fit in if you limit yourself to a strict hierarchy – he sees employees more as his peer group.

Next, we have Varun Dua of Acko Insurance, who spoke about growing in a company from an employee’s point of view. One of the things he told me was that when you find something you love, you should be at it for 10-15 years. Because it is the payoff of years of perseverance that is fruitful – and  not the short term gains you make along the way. 

Yashish Dahiya, the co-founder of PolicyBazaar, was quite candid in our chat. He spoke about why an employee who spent five years at PolicyBazaar is considered a new employee. He  also went on to explain why he distances himself from making hiring decisions.

Next, you’ll hear Archit Gupta of Clear. When talking about employees, Archit was very specific. He told us why investing into the ‘sincere’,‘earnest’ people in the organization is necessary, and why uplifting them is important.

Lastly, MN Srinivasu or Vasu, as he’s often called, spoke to me how he built BillDesk by essentially teaching the first set of employees to be well-versed in the line of business BillDesk was creating. This is a part of BillDesk’s culture. There is a broad belief in patience, at Billdesk. Why does patience matter? What allows his employees to be patient? And how do you find meaning in practicing it? 

This is First Principles—The Ken’s weekly leadership podcast.

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Welcome back to Episode 39 of First Principles!

A few weeks ago, you heard the first part of our conversation with Aneesh Reddy, the CEO and Co-Founder of Capillary Tech, a software company offering products and services in the customer experience space.

And you might remember that in that episode, Aneesh took us through the journey of Capillary in instalments – because as he explained, Aneesh dreams in instalments. 

The second instalment was the years 2013 to 2018 – which Aneesh called “Capillary’s confusing years.” 

They were particularly difficult years for them. 

Having raised a massive amount of venture funding at an expensive valuation, Capillary started burning cash as they expanded ambitiously beyond India. The leadership had to justify their valuation, Aneesh said. 

During this time, Aneesh’s co-founder Krishna Mehra, or KK, had moved to San Francisco in the US. Communication between the co-founders started breaking down even as the pressure on Capillary Tech started mounting.

Eventually, both of Aneesh’s co-founders left within months of each other. But before leaving, KK was upfront with Aneesh. 

He told Aneesh that he had become a bully. He wasn’t workable anymore.

Aneesh went to the Capillary board and told them he wanted to quit. 

In this second part, you’ll hear the two things that Aneesh ended up doing to bounce back. 

The first was executive coaching. A difficult process, because Aneesh, in his own words, ‘was a hard nut to crack.’ 

Eventually, the coaching process proved to be so transformative for Aneesh, that Capillary today offers coaching to not just its entire leadership team but also down to first-time managers. 

The second, very interestingly, was Vipassana. And again, as Aneesh explained, it was very difficult at first. 

But it changed him. 

He calls it a process of self-discovery and self-purification that every entrepreneur should experience.

In this episode, Aneesh talks to me about how these two interventions transformed him and Capillary. 

He takes me through both processes – day by day, in the case of Vipassana — and how it made a difference to his temperament, leadership style, and his approach to managing.

We also talk about Aneesh’s fitness journey, finding a purpose in working, and the future of Capillary. 

This is episode 39 of First Principles—The Ken’s weekly leadership podcast.

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Welcome to Episode 38 of First Principles!

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In this episode, you will hear Vaibhav Gupta, the CEO and co-founder of Udaan, an online trade platform whose mission is to "transform India".

It hopes to achieve that lofty goal by bringing tens of thousands of shopkeepers and grocery store owners closer to their suppliers and offering them competitive pricing, guarantees on quality, and easy deliveries and returns.

Vaibhav and his co-founders—Amod Malaviya and Sujeet Kumar—were all senior Flipkart leaders before starting Udaan. And yet, he insists Udaan isn't merely a "Flipkart for businesses".

Since 2016, when it first began operations, Udaan has raised over a billion dollars in venture capital. It was one of the fastest startups to achieve the coveted "unicorn tag".

It has also gone through its ups and downs in terms of valuations and headcount.

In this episode—Part 1 of our conversation with Vaibhav Gupta, we discuss:

--> Why Udaan evolved from a marketplace to a first-party business

--> Why the firm instituted a formal CEO position after five years of its existence

--> The five pillars of Udaan's culture

--> What daily conversations inside Udaan's leadership team look like

This is episode 38 of First Principles—The Ken's weekly leadership podcast.

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Welcome back to Episode 37 of First Principles.

If you’re here to find our latest edition of the First Principles Newsletter, here you go!

A few weeks ago, we had a wonderful conversation with Viren Shetty – the executive vice chairman of Narayana Health.  Narayana Health – formerly called Narayana Hrudalaya – is a hospital network that’s also listed on the stock exchanges. 

Today’s episode is the second part of our conversation with Viren. In part 1, Viren talked about healthcare in India – something he described as an “assembly line.” 

If you remember listening to it, you’ll know that Viren has both intricate knowledge and undeniable intuition about the healthcare landscape in India. We discussed Viren’s ambitions to fix healthcare in India and where Narayana Health is headed. 

That led us to why Viren holds this mission so close to his heart, in this second part of our conversation.

What led him to healthcare? What drives him to wake up and do this, day after day? In our opening, you heard about Viren’s innate pattern recognition superpower, which is very different from his father Dr. DeviShetty’s.

So, how did he build this intuition? And how does he use it to run a vast hospital network?

Viren answers all of these questions with stories from his life, career and even from the hospitals where he grew up. 

This is episode 37 of First Principles—The Ken’s weekly leadership podcast.

P.S. Please recommend your favourite books for the First Principles community here!

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Welcome to Episode 36 of First Principles!

If you're here to find our latest edition of the First Principles Newsletter, here you go!

Our guest for this episode is Aneesh Reddy, the co-founder and CEO of Capillary Technologies, a Bangalore-headquartered software-as-a-service – or SaaS – company that is one of the global leaders in customer loyalty and engagement.

Capillary powers the customer loyalty operations of hundreds of companies around the world. From companies like Domino’s, Puma, Shell, Marks & Spencers, and the Tata Group, to 15 of the world’s top Fortune 100 companies. 

Each time you transact at one of their stores or respond to a marketing message or upgrade your room, it’s probably Capillary’s tech at play behind the scenes. 

In its 16th year now, Capillary powers close to 7 billion annual transactions for its customer’s customers.

But – and there’s always a but in great stories – Capillary and Aneesh didn’t have an easy ride.

They went through multiple economic downturns. They raised large venture rounds and expanded globally, only to shut down many of those operations after losing millions of dollars. Of the three co-founders, two left. 

One having burnt out and the other because Aneesh was too stressful to work with.

Aneesh himself wanted to quit. But his board wouldn’t have it.

In this episode, Aneesh explains how CapillaryTech bounced back from this point, by slicing  their journey into three  “dream installments.”

He also talks about:

1. How CapillaryTech “bounced” into SaaS in a global recession 
2. The breakout SaaS model that gets them $1 million deals 
3. Building a people-first organization 
4. Learning and changing as a leader

This is episode 36 of First Principles—The Ken's weekly leadership podcast.

P.S. Please recommend your favourite books for the First Principles community here!

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A few weeks ago, we published an episode with Soumya Rajan of Waterfield Advisors. We discussed what it was like to bet your future on an idea that no one had tried before, in India.  In Soumya’s case, that idea was a business model around wealth management.

You might remember Soumya saying it really wasn’t easy. 

Her peers had doubts. Her clients had doubts. Her family had doubts. She had doubts. 

But she dug her heels in. 12 years in, Waterfield Advisors is now India’s largest multi-family office and wealth advisory, managing over 40,000 crores for its clients. We covered a lot of ground around Waterfield’s early years. 

And then, we took a break. We had some coffee, looked around the studio offices, and came back in to record again. 

And slowly, the next hour of our conversation became about looking ahead. 

Soumya detailed her vision to me. Waterfield is planning to expand to Dubai this year. And perhaps even more international offices after that. 

In fact, Soumya said, she wants to build an organization like J.P. Morgan – out of India.

JP Morgan traces its history nearly 150 years back. So naturally, I asked Soumya: how do make sure you build a company that’s around for 10, 20…even 50 years? How do you build a truly defensible and lasting moat?

Her answer was very interesting. Soumya said Waterfield will continue what it started with – never manufacturing their own products, and continuing to remain only an advisory.

She explained, Waterfield would never go into distribution – which is where the money is.

 It will always be an advisory. 

Again, Soumya has a big bet – she believes that Waterfield needs to give up growth and scale in the short term, to succeed in the long term. 

And in this episode, she explains why this will work. 

We also talk about: 

--> Being unapologetic about entrepreneurship

--> Learning to let go as a CEO

--> How to use AI as a friend 

--> Building a ritualistic work ethic 

This is episode 35 of First Principles—The Ken's weekly leadership podcast.

P.S.: If you have any submissions for book recommendations, interesting reads, #SilentSunday pictures or songs for the First Principles newsletter, send them here.

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Welcome to the first 2024 episode of First Principles! Though we’re only 15 months old, we’re also technically into our third calendar year, after our first episode in August 2022. A happy new year to you. Here’s to many more years of wonderful conversations, learning and growing.

Our guest today is Viren Shetty, the executive vice chairman of Narayana Health—the publicly listed healthcare group that operates over two dozen hospitals across India. 

Refreshingly, Viren thinks about healthcare…as an assembly line. 

And there are many, many steps in this line. Many of these are very small...they seem unimportant. Even forgettable. Like scheduling an annual healthcare checkup. Or filling out a feedback form at your clinic. Or just waiting in line for your doctor's appointment. 

When I asked Viren how healthcare can be fixed in India, he pointed to this assembly line. 

Basically, what if you tweak every small step of this line a little bit? Small, unnoticeable changes at every step? He’s confident that the result will be a smooth, well-oiled machine that takes care of your health end-to-end. 

This is what, Viren says, Narayana Health is trying to do. 

It reminded me of Apple. Take existing technologies and make improvements while putting the user at the centre of the experience. 

Narayana Health is a name you might have heard, especially if you’re from Bangalore. It was founded in 2000 by Dr. Devi Shetty. It went public in 2016 and is valued at over US$1 billion.

But what we know as Narayana Health today began as Narayana Hrudayalaya, a super speciality hospital with a laser-sharp focus on cardiac health. Twenty years on, however, it's changed a lot.

In addition to its numerous hospitals across India, it's also venturing into health insurance policies, partnering with clinics and pharmacies, and building an ambitious bundled subscription plan for its customers. 

This episode is a first in more ways than one. It’s not just our first episode of 2024. It’s also the first episode with a guest from the healthcare sector. 

And it’s the first episode which may sound a little different to you. 

In this episode, I ask Viren:

• Why are health checkups such a hassle?
• Is the answer to better healthcare in hardware or software?
• What are the health tech startups doing right?

And then there is the unshakable mistrust that the Indian population holds against hospitals and doctors. Can this even be solved?

Patiently and confidently, Viren answers every one of my questions. He talks about building sticky habits in customers, changing the messaging in healthcare, and becoming “worse” as an insurance company to be better as a healthcare one.

In this episode, we truly get down to the first principles of healthcare in India.

Check out the First Principles Newsletter, a weekly Sunday read on entrepreneurship, mental models, leadership and reflection here.

Send in submissions for book recommendations, interesting reads, Silent Sunday pictures or songs for the First Principles newsletter here.

This is Episode 34 of First Principles, Viren Shetty—The Ken’s fortnightly leadership podcast.

The Ken is India’s first subscriber-only business journalism platform. Check out our deeply reported long-form stories, insightful newsletters, original podcasts and much more here.

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A couple of weeks ago, you heard our episode with Ritesh Agarwal, the founder and Group CEO of OYO rooms. If you remember, he talked to me about the atmosphere at the organization after COVID hit.

To put it simply, it was wartime inside OYO.

Cash needed to be protected. Leadership had to be let go. The company completely changed.

In the first hour of the conversation with Ritesh, who explained in detail what it took to come back from this near-death experience. We’d urge you to check out that episode.

Anyway, we took a short break after the first hour. We stepped out, had a coffee, and chatted a bit. Which helped immensely, because once we stepped back inside the studio, the conversation turned…inwards. We got to reflecting. Retrospecting. How has Ritesh grown, and what has he learnt as a founder, as a CEO, as a leader…

And something he said was really surprising.  

Rohin asked him if he considered himself a wartime CEO or a peacetime one.

With cool conviction, he said he’s a peacetime CEO. 

With OYO being in war mode through all its years of difficulties, Ritesh could very well be considered a great wartime CEO.

But when you’ll listen to this episode, you’ll know that Ritesh knows what kind of a CEO he is, because he is an extremely deliberate, reflective person. He’s thought about every challenge and every opportunity that has come his way. And what he’s learnt from it. Reflection is non-negotiable for a CEO, he says.

In this episode – part 2 of our conversation with Ritesh Agarwal of OYO, he explains this. Why you must take time to reflect. When you should do it. And of course, the process at OYO to collectively reflect as an organisation. 

I think this is the perfect episode for us to wind down the year with, here at the First Principles podcast. Ritesh looks back on his decade as a young founder and CEO – how he’s changed, and how his own mission has evolved. We talk about recognizing which opportunities to grab and which to pass up, and how to deal with regret when it comes. 

We now have chapters available for this episode on Spotify and Apple Podcasts! Click on any chapter you like to jump to the parts you want to listen to.

This is episode 33 of First Principles with Ritesh Agarwal, Part 2—The Ken’s fortnightly leadership podcast.

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“What is something you believe in, that no one else around you does?”

If you’ve heard episode 30 with Ritesh Agarwal, the founder and CEO of OYO Rooms, then you’ll recognize this as a question that he had to answer while applying for the Thiel Fellowship.

It’s a simple but powerful question that usually differentiates motivated, passionate and unreasonable founders from other equally capable professionals. Because what is a startup if not a mere belief in something that should exist?

This question is also equally apt for our guests today. Because Soumya Rajan believed in something that no one else around her did. Soumya is the Founder and CEO of Waterfield Advisors – India’s largest multi-family office and wealth advisory firm which manages over 40,000 crore – that’s over $4 billion – for its clients.

But in 2010, Soumya was working at Standard Chartered Bank, a bank she’d joined straight from college after back-to-back mathematics degrees. A bank where she’d worked at for 17 straight years – her first and only job. She’d been the head of Standard Chartered’s Private Banking arm and reached the top. But having reached there, Soumya wondered why she wasn’t interested in playing the same game.

2010 was also the year Soumya turned 40. The age when many professionals hit their mid-life crisis. If you remember, Karthik Jayaraman, the co-founder and CEO of Waycool, decided to start up too after hitting 40. 

Soumya too decided to quit her job and start on her own by making a contrarian bet – that it was better to charge her wealthy clients directly for financial advice instead of making money via commissions paid by financial services companies whose products she would recommend. 

Soumya says that in 2010, this went completely against the tide in India’s wealth management sector. No one else was doing it. Even her peers and ex-colleagues were dismissive of her belief. 

In this episode, Soumya, in her calm and reflective manner, tells me her story. There is a strong thread of vision that runs through our entire conversation – Soumya is driven by a sharp sense of curiosity and purpose in everything that Waterfield Advisors is doing. You’ll notice it in the way she breaks down her midlife crisis, her role as CEO, her beliefs about products and incentives, and even her work for empowering women as investors. We also talk about:

1. What the wealth management landscape of India looks like
2. Why Waterfield is like the lawyer or the doctor of financial wellbeing
3. How to survive in the short-term when you’re building to last
4. The one question she asks people before hiring them.

Check out the First Principles Newsletter, a weekly Sunday read on entrepreneurship, mental models, leadership and reflection here.

Send in submissions for book recommendations, interesting reads, Silent Sunday pictures or songs for the First Principles newsletter here.

This is Episode 32 of First Principles, with Soumya Rajan.—The Ken’s fortnightly leadership podcast.

The Ken is India’s first subscriber-only business journalism platform. Check out our deeply reported long-form stories, insightful newsletters, original podcasts and much more here.

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Welcome to to episode 31 of First Principles!

If you’ve been listening to us for a while, you’ll notice that this was supposed to be an off week for us as a fortnightly show. We used to release new episodes every other Thursday. And last Thursday was our episode with Ritesh Agarwal of OYO Rooms. 

But starting this week, First Principles is now a weekly podcast. We’re going to bring you a fresh conversation every Thursday. 

But in a slightly different way.

Well, the supply of truly original, accomplished and candid founders and business leaders in India is what we believe, a finite resource. So while we’d love to – at some point – have a roster of guests talking to us every single week, that isn’t possible right now. 

And so, we’re now increasing the duration of our conversations with the leaders we meet to roughly two hours each. 

Only to split it into two distinct conversations and episodes. 

That’s where this episode comes in.

A couple of weeks ago you heard our episode with Karthik Jayaraman – the co-founder and CEO of WayCool Foods, an agri-tech start up that distributes and processes fresh produce, grains, staples and milk.

It was a wonderfully candid and authentic conversation in which Karthik spoke about complementing, instead of disrupting; treading lightly while making decisions; and starting up at 40.

In fact, we’d urge you to check out the episode – or, if you'd like to go through the full transcript. You can click here to do so.

But what you didn’t hear in that conversation is what we’re releasing today as episode 31. 

We talk about why Karthik took such a big risk at 40 by jumping from automobiles into a completely different sector, agri-tech. He also reflects on his career, what got him here, and what keeps him going. 

We talked about who Karthik is – as a leader and a CEO. What are the habits that he’s picked up? What has he been reading, and why?

We’ve tied all of this together for today’s episode – a Part 2, on Karthik’s life, career and values. 

Check out the First Principles Newsletter, a weekly Sunday read on entrepreneurship, mental models, leadership and reflection here.

Send in submissions for books recommendations, interesting reads, Silent Sunday pictures or songs for the First Principles newsletter here.

This is episode 31 of First Principles with Karthik Jayaraman, Part 2—The Ken's fortnightly leadership podcast.

The Ken is India's first subscriber-only business journalism platform. Check out our deeply reported long-form stories, insightful newsletters, original podcasts and much more here.

One channel. Every show. No more switching feeds.

Follow The Ken on Apple Podcasts or tune in on The Ken app.