Is technology the source or salve of social isolation? Given the realities of increasing division, the epidemic of loneliness, and unwanted isolation today, how should we think about the theological, ethical, and spiritual dimensions of the human experience of aloneness?

“AI technologies aren’t capable of creating conditions in which grace can happen—it’s endemic to personhood.”

This episode is part 3 of a 5-part series, SOLO, which explores the theological, moral, and psychological dimensions of loneliness, solitude, and being alone.

In this episode, sociologist Felicia Wu Song joins Macie Bridge to discuss the sociology of solitude, loneliness, and isolation, framed by today’s most pressing technological challenges.

Drawing from her work on digital culture and AI, Song distinguishes between isolation, loneliness, and generative solitude—what she calls “positive aloneness.” She explores how technology both connects and disconnects us, what’s lost when care becomes automated, and why the human face-to-face encounter remains vital for grace and dignity. Together they consider the allure of AI companionship, the “better-than-nothing” argument, and the church’s local, embodied role in a digitized age. Song invites listeners to rediscover curiosity, self-reflection, and the spiritual discipline of solitude as essential practices for recovering our humanity amid the noise of the crowd.

Helpful Links and Resources

• Felicia Wu Song, Restless Devices: Recovering Personhood, Presence, and Place in the Digital Age — https://www.ivpress.com/restless-devices
• Allison Pugh, The Last Human Job: The Work of Connecting in a Disconnected World — https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691240817/the-last-human-job
• David Whyte, “Solace: The Art of Asking the Beautiful Question” — https://www.amazon.com/Solace-Art-Asking-Beautiful-Question/dp/1932887377
• Sherry Turkle, Alone Together: Why We Expect More from Technology and Less from Each Other — https://www.sherryturkle.com/alone-together

Episode Highlights

1. “Even though I study technology, I’m really interested in what it means to be human.”
2. “What happens when we have technologies that always bring the crowd? The crowd is always with us all the time.”
3. “Loneliness is the gap between what I think I should have and what I actually have.”
4. “AI technologies aren’t capable of creating conditions in which grace can happen—it’s endemic to personhood.”
5. “We should cut ourselves a lot of slack. Feeling lonely is very human. It doesn’t mean something’s wrong with me.”

About Felicia Wu Song

Felicia Wu Song is a sociologist, writer, and speaker, and was Professor of Sociology at Westmont College for many years. She is author of Restless Devices: Recovering Personhood, Presence, and Place in the Digital Age. Her research examines digital technology, culture, and Christian formation, exploring how contemporary media ecosystems shape our social and spiritual lives. Learn more about her work at https://feliciawusong.com/

Show Notes

Technology, Humanity, and Solitude

• Song describes her sociological work at the intersection of culture, technology, and spirituality.
• She reflects on how technology reshapes our sense of identity, community, and human meaning.
• “Even though I study technology, I’m really interested in what it means to be human.”
• The question of loneliness emerges from the expectation of constant accessibility and permanent connection.

The Crowd Is Always With Us

• “What happens when we have technologies that always bring the crowd?”
• Song critiques how digital connectivity erases silence and solitude, making stillness feel uncomfortable.
• Explores the challenge of practicing ancient spiritual disciplines like silence in the digital age.

Connection and Disconnection

• Song traces the historical celebration of communication technology’s power to transcend time and space.
• Notes the danger of normalizing constant connectivity: “If you can do it, you should do it.”
• Examines how connection can become a cultural norm that stigmatizes solitude.

Defining Loneliness, Isolation, and Solitude

• “Social isolation is objective; loneliness is subjective; solitude is generative.”
• Distinguishes “positive aloneness” as a space for self-conversation and divine encounter.
• References David Whyte and the Desert Fathers and Mothers as guides to solitude.

Youth, Boredom, and the Portal of Loneliness

• Discusses the value of “episodic loneliness” as a portal to self-discovery and spiritual growth.
• Connects solitude to creativity and reflection through the “boredom literature.”

AI, Care, and the Better-Than-Nothing Argument

• Examines the emergence of AI chatbots and companionship tools.
• Engages Allison Pugh’s critique of “the better-than-nothing argument.”
• “It sounds altruistic, but it actually leads to deeper and deeper inequality.”
• Raises justice and resource questions around replacing human teachers and therapists with chatbots.

The Limits of Machine Grace

• “AI technologies aren’t capable of creating conditions in which grace can happen—it’s endemic to personhood.”
• Explores embodiment, dignity, and the irreplaceable value of human presence.
• Critiques the assumption that “being seen” by a machine equates to being known by a person.

AI, Divinity, and Projection

• Notes human tendency to attribute divine or human qualities to machines.
• References Sherry Turkle’s early studies on human-computer relationships.
• “We are so relational that we’ll even take a clunky computer program and give it human-like qualities.”

Faith, Solitude, and Social Conditions

• Song emphasizes the sociological dimension: environments shape human flourishing.
• “Let’s not make it so hard for people to experience solitude.”
• Advocates for embodied, place-based communities as antidotes to digital disembodiment.

Loneliness, Curiosity, and Grace

• Encourages gentleness toward oneself in moments of loneliness.
• “Feeling lonely is very human. It doesn’t mean something’s wrong with me.”
• Promotes curiosity and acceptance as pathways to spiritual and personal growth.

Production Notes

• This podcast featured Felicia Wu Song
• Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa
• Hosted by Evan Rosa
• Production Assistance by Hope Chun, Alexa Rollow and Emily Brookfield
• A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/about
• Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

Consider human ecological loneliness and our longing for reconnection with all creation. What healing is available in an era defined by environmental loss and exploitation? Can we strengthen the fragile connection between modern society and the space we inhabit?

“Loneliness is the symptom that desires its cure.”

In this episode Macie Bridge welcomes writer, translator, and poet Laura Marris to reflect on her essay collection The Age of Loneliness, a meditation on solitude, grief, and the ecology of attention. Marris considers what it means to live through an era defined by environmental loss and human disconnection, yet still filled with wonder. She shares stories of tardigrades that endure extreme conditions, how airports reveal our attitudes toward birds, and the personal loss of her father that awakened her to “noticing absence.” Together, they explore how ecological loneliness might transform into longing for reconnection—not only among humans, but with the creatures and landscapes that share our world. Marris suggests that paying attention, naming, and noticing are acts of restoration. “Loneliness,” she writes, “is the symptom that desires its cure.”

Episode Highlights

• “Loneliness is the symptom that desires its cure.”
• “There are ways, even very simple ones, that individuals can do to make the landscape around them more hospitable.”
• “I don’t believe that humans are hardwired to exploit. There have been many societies with long traditions of mutual benefit and coexistence.”
• “It’s really hard to notice an absence sometimes. There’s something curative about noticing absences that have been around but not acknowledged.”
• “Ecological concerns are not a luxury. It’s actually really important to hold the line on them.”

Helpful Links and Resources

The Age of Loneliness by Laura Marris — https://www.graywolfpress.org/books/age-loneliness
Underland by Robert Macfarlane — https://wwnorton.com/books/9780393242140
E.O. Wilson on “Beware the Age of Loneliness” — https://www.economist.com/news/2013/11/18/beware-the-age-of-loneliness

About Laura Marris

Laura Marris is a writer and translator whose work spans poetry, essays, and literary translation. She is the author of The Age of Loneliness and has translated Albert Camus’s The Plague for Vintage Classics. She teaches creative writing and translation at the University at Buffalo.

Show Notes

• The Ecology of Loneliness and Longing
• Laura Marris discusses The Age of Loneliness—“Eremocene”—a term coined by E.O. Wilson to describe a speculative future of environmental isolation.
• Fascination with poetic form and environmental prose emerging during the pandemic.
• Ecological loneliness arises from biodiversity loss, but also offers the chance to reimagine more hospitable human landscapes.
• Extreme Tolerance and the Human Condition
• Marris describes tardigrades as metaphors for endurance without thriving—organisms that survive extremes by pausing metabolism.
• “How extremely tolerant are humans, and what are our ways of trying to be more tolerant to extreme conditions?”
• Air conditioning becomes an emblem of “extreme tolerance,” mirroring human adaptation to a destabilized environment.
• Birds, Airports, and the Language of Blame
• Marris explores how modern air travel enforces ecological loneliness by eradicating other species from its space.
• She reveals hidden networks of wildlife managers and the Smithsonian’s Feather Identification Lab.
• Reflects on the “Miracle on the Hudson,” where language wrongly cast geese as antagonists—“as if the birds wanted to hit the plane.”
• Loneliness, Solitude, and Longing
• “Loneliness is solitude attached to longing that feels painful.”
• Marris distinguishes solitude’s generativity from loneliness’s ache, suggesting longing can be a moral compass toward reconnection.
• Personal stories of her father’s bird lists intertwine grief and ecological noticing.
• Ground Truthing and Community Science
• Marris introduces “ground truthing”—people verifying ecological data firsthand.
• She celebrates local volunteers counting birds, horseshoe crabs, and plants as acts of hope.
• “Community care applies to human and more-than-human communities alike.”
• Toxic Landscapes and Ecological Aftermath
• Marris recounts Buffalo’s industrial scars and ongoing restoration along the Niagara River.
• “Toxins don’t stop at the edge of the landfill—they keep going.”
• She reflects on beauty, resilience, and the return of eagles to post-industrial lands.
• Attention and Wonder as Advocacy
• “A lot of advocacy stems from paying local attention.”
• Small, attentive acts—like watching sparrows dust bathe—are forms of resistance against despair.
• Cure, Absence, and Continuing the Conversation
• Marris resists the idea of a final “cure” for loneliness.
• “Cure could be something ongoing, a process, a change in your life.”
• Her annual bird counts become a continuing dialogue with her late father.
• Wisdom for the Lonely
• “Take the time to notice what it is you’re lonely for.”
• She calls for transforming loneliness into longing for a more hospitable, interdependent world.

Production Notes

• This podcast featured Laura Marris
• Interview by Macie Bridge
• Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa
• Production Assistance by Alexa Rollow, Emily Brookfield, and Hope Chun
• A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/about
• Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

Theologian Miroslav Volf reflects on solitude, loneliness, and how being alone can reveal our humanity, selfhood, and relationship with God.

This episode is part 1 of a 5-part series, SOLO, which explores the theological, moral, and psychological dimensions of loneliness, solitude, and being alone.

“Solitude brings one back in touch with who one is—it’s how we stabilize ourselves so we know how to be ourselves with others.”

Macie Bridge welcomes Miroslav for a conversation on solitude and being oneself—probing the difference between loneliness and aloneness, and the essential role of solitude in a flourishing Christian life. Reflecting on Genesis, the Incarnation, and the sensory life of faith, Volf considers how we can both embrace solitude and attend to the loneliness of others.

He shares personal reflections on his mother’s daily prayer practice and how solitude grounded her in divine presence. Volf describes how solitude restores the self before God and others: “Nobody can be me instead of me.” It is possible, he suggests, that we can we rediscover the presence of God in every relationship—solitary or shared.

Helpful Links and Resources

• The Cost of Ambition: How Striving to Be Better Than Others Makes Us Worse
• Fyodor Dostoevsky, Crime and Punishment
• Rainer Maria Rilke, Book of Hours (Buch der Stunden)
• Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Creation and Fall

Episode Highlights

1. “Nobody can be me instead of me. And since I must be me, to be me well, I need times with myself.”
2. “It’s not good, in almost a metaphysical sense, for us to be alone. We aren’t ourselves when we are simply alone.”
3. “Solitude brings one back in touch with who one is—it’s how we stabilize ourselves so we know how to be ourselves with others.”
4. “Our relationship to God is mediated by our relationships to others. To honor another is to honor God.”
5. “When we attend to the loneliness of others, in some ways we tend to our own loneliness.”

Solitude, Loneliness, and Flourishing

• The difference between solitude (constructive aloneness) and loneliness (diminishment of self).
• COVID-19 as an amplifier of solitude and loneliness.
• Volf’s experience of being alone at Yale—productive solitude without loneliness.
• Loneliness as “the absence of an affirming glance.”
• Aloneness as essential for self-reflection and renewal before others.

Humanity, Creation, and Relationship

• Adam’s solitude in Genesis as an incomplete creation—“It is not good for man to be alone.”
• Human beings as fundamentally social and political.
• A newborn cannot flourish without touch and gaze—relational presence is constitutive of personhood.
• Solitude and communion exist in dynamic tension; both must be rightly measured.

Jesus’s Solitude and Human Responsibility

• Jesus withdrawing to pray as a model of sacred solitude.
• Solitude allows one to “return to oneself,” guarding against being lost in the crowd.
• The danger of losing selfhood in relationships, “becoming echoes of the crowd.”

God, Limits, and Others

• Every other person as a God-given limit—“To honor another is to honor God.”
• Violating others as transgressing divine boundaries.
• True spirituality as respecting the space, limit, and presence of the other.

Touch, Senses, and the Church

• The sensory dimension of faith—seeing, touching, being seen.
• Mary’s anointing of Jesus as embodied gospel.
• Rilke’s “ripe seeing”: vision as invitation and affirmation.
• The church as a site of embodied presence—touch, seeing, listening as acts of communion.

The Fear of Violation and the Gift of Respect

• Loneliness often born from fear of being violated rather than from lack of company.
• Loving another includes honoring their limit and respecting their freedom.

Practical Reflections on Loneliness

• Questions Volf asks himself: “Do I dare to be alone? How do I draw strength when I feel lonely?”
• The paradox of social connection in a digital age—teenagers side by side, “completely disconnected.”
• Love as sheer presence—“By sheer being, having a loving attitude, I relieve another’s loneliness.”

The Spiritual Discipline of Solitude

• Volf’s mother’s daily hour of morning prayer—learning to hear God’s voice like Samuel.
• Solitude as the ground for transformation: narrating oneself before God.
• “Nobody can die in my place… nobody can live my life in my place.”
• Solitude as preparation for love and life in community.

About Miroslav Volf

Miroslav Volf is the Henry B. Wright Professor of Theology at Yale Divinity School and Founding Director of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture. He is the author of Exclusion and Embrace, Flourishing: Why We Need Religion in a Globalized World, and numerous works on theology, culture, and human flourishing—most recently The Cost of Ambition: How Striving to Be Better Than Others Makes Us Worse.

Production Notes

• This podcast featured Miroslav Volf
• Interview by Macie Bridge
• Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa
• Production Assistance by Alexa Rollow, Emily Brookfield, and Hope Chun
• A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/about
• Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

From bipartisan cooperation to prayerful gratitude, Senator Kirsten Gillibrand joins Drew Collins to reflect on joy, wisdom, and love of enemy in a divided nation—offering a vision of public service grounded in the way of Jesus.

“Jesus defied expectations—he welcomed the stranger, he fed the hungry, he loved his enemies.”

Together they discuss the role of faith in public life amid deep division. Reflecting on Jesus’s call to love our enemies and the Apostle Paul’s exhortation to “rejoice always,” she describes how Scripture, prayer, and gratitude sustain her work in the U.S. Senate.

From bipartisan collaboration to the challenges of resisting an authoritarian executive branch, Gillibrand speaks candidly about the challenges of embodying gentleness and compassion in politics, consistently seeking spiritual solidarity with colleagues across the aisle. Drawing on Philippians 4, she testifies to the peace of God that transcends understanding, revealing a vision of political life animated by faith, courage, and joy—all in the spirit of hope, humility, and the enduring call to love in public service.

Episode Highlights

• “Faith is the greatest gift you could have. It grounds me; it reminds me why I’m here and what my life is supposed to be about.”
• “We can disagree about public policy, but we don’t have to be in disagreement as people.”
• “Jesus defied expectations—he welcomed the stranger, he fed the hungry, he loved his enemies.”
• “Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again, rejoice… let your gentleness be evident to all.”
• “I pray for wisdom every day. Scripture tells us if you ask for it, you will receive it—and boy do I need it.”

About Kirsten Gillibrand

Kirsten Gillibrand is the U.S. Senator from New York, serving since 2009. A graduate of Dartmouth College and UCLA Law School, she has focused her legislative career on ethics reform, national security, and family policy. Grounded in her Christian faith, she seeks to model bipartisan leadership and compassionate public service. For more information, visit gillibrand.senate.gov.

Helpful Links and Resources

• Philippians 4:4–9 (Bible Gateway)
• Redeemer Presbyterian Church (Tim Keller)
• Gospel in Life Podcast (Tim Keller)
• Chaplain Barry C. Black – U.S. Senate Chaplain
• Kirsten Gillibrand, Official Senate Page

Faith and Division

• Gillibrand describes America’s current political and social moment as deeply divided, weakened by retreat into ideological corners.
• “We’re stronger when we work together—when people love their neighbors and care as if they were their own family.”
• Faith offers grounding amid chaos; social media and tribalism breed extremism and hate.

Following Jesus in Public Life

• Faith clarifies her purpose and sustains her in political life.
• “It makes everything make sense to me.”
• Living “out of step with what’s cool, trendy, or powerful” defines Christian vocation in public office.

Bipartisanship and Common Ground

• Works with Senators Cynthia Lummis (R-WY) on crypto regulation, Ted Cruz (R-TX) on first responder support, and Josh Hawley (R-MO) on stock trading bans.
• “If I can restore some healthcare or Meals on Wheels, I’ll go that extra mile to do that good thing.”
• Collaboration as moral practice—faith expressed through policy partnership.

Loving Enemies and Welcoming Strangers

• Draws parallels between Jesus’s ministry and bipartisan cooperation.
• “He would sooner convert a Roman soldier than go to war with him.”
• “If I went to a Democratic rally and said, ‘love your enemy,’ I don’t know how that would go over.”

Testifying to Faith

• Weekly Bible study with Senate Chaplain Barry C. Black.
• “He told us: Testify to your blessings. Share what God is doing in your life.”
• Posts daily blessings on social media, mixing joy and public witness.

The Faith of Democrats

• Counters perception that Democrats lack faith: “There are more ordained ministers and theology degrees on our side than people realize.”
• Mentions Senators Tim Kaine, Chris Coons, Raphael Warnock, Amy Klobuchar, and Lisa Blunt Rochester, all of whom regularly meet and discuss their faith and its impact on public office.

Faith and Policy Differences

• On reproductive rights and LGBTQ equality: “It’s not the government’s job to discriminate.”
• Frames Matthew 25 as central to Democratic faith—feeding, caring, welcoming.
• Compares differing theological interpretations of government’s role in justice.

Joy and Gratitude

• Philippians 4 as daily anchor: “Rejoice in the Lord always… let your gentleness be evident to all.”
• Keeps a five-year daily gratitude journal: “You rewire your brain to look for what is praiseworthy.”
• Rejoicing doesn’t deny suffering; it transforms it into solidarity.

Prayer and Wisdom

• Prays constantly for family, colleagues, nation, and reconciliation.
• “Wisdom’s usually the one thing I ask for myself.”
• Prayer as discernment: deciding “where to put my voice, effort, and relationships.”

Production Notes

• This podcast featured Senator Kirsten Gillibrand.
• Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa.
• Hosted by Evan Rosa.
• Production Assistance by Alexa Rollow and Emily Brookfield.
• A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School (faith.yale.edu/about)
• Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: faith.yale.edu/give

“The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.” Theologian R. Kendall Soulen joins Drew Collins to discuss supersessionism, the name of God (tetragrammaton), the irrevocable covenant between God and the Jews, and the enduring significance of Judaism for Christian theology.

Together they explore religious and ethnic heritage, cultural identity, community, covenant, interfaith dialogue, and the ongoing implications for Christian theology and practice.

They also reflect on how the Holocaust forced Christians to confront theological assumptions, how Vatican II and subsequent church statements reshaped doctrine, and why the gifts and calling of God remain irrevocable. Soulen challenges traditional readings of Scripture that erase Israel, insisting instead on a post-supersessionist framework where Jews and Gentiles bear distinct but inseparable witness to God’s faithfulness.

Image Credit: Marc Chagall, ”Moses with the Burning Bush”, 1966

Episode Highlights

1. “The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.”
2. “Supersessionism is the Christian belief that the Jews are no longer God’s people.”
3. “The Lord is God—those words preserve God’s identity and resist erasure.”
4. “Israel sinned. They are still Israel. That identity is irrevocable.”
5. “The gospel doesn’t erase the distinction between Jews and Gentiles; it reconfigures it.”

About R. Kendall Soulen

R. Kendall Soulen is Professor of Systematic Theology at Candler School of Theology, Emory University. A leading voice in post-supersessionist Christian theology, he has written extensively on the relationship between Christianity and Judaism, including The God of Israel and Christian Theology and Irrevocable: The Name of God and the Christian Bible.

Helpful Links and Resources

• R. Kendall Soulen, Irrevocable: The Name of God and the Christian Bible
• R. Kendall Soulen, The God of Israel and Christian Theology
• Vatican II, Nostra Aetate — Vatican.va
• Michael Wyschogrod, The Body of Faith: God in the People Israel
• Drew Collins, The Unique and Universal Christ

Show Notes

• R. Kendall Soulen’s formative encounters with Judaism at Yale and influence of Hans Frei and Michael Wyschogrod
• Romans 9–11 as central to understanding Christianity’s relationship with Judaism
• Supersessionism defined as denying Israel’s ongoing covenant with God
• Impact of the Holocaust and World War II on Christian theology
• Vatican II’s Nostra Aetate affirming God’s covenant with Israel remains intact
• Over a billion Christians now belong to churches rejecting supersessionism
• Soulen’s early work The God of Israel and Christian Theology diagnosing supersessionism in canonical narrative
• Discovery of the divine name’s centrality in Scripture and its neglect in Christian interpretation
• Jesus’s reverence for God’s name shaping Christian prayer and theology
• Proper names as resistance to instrumentalization and fungibility
• Jewish and Gentile identities as distinct yet united in Christ
• Dialogue with Judaism as essential for Christian self-understanding
• Post-supersessionist theology reshaping interfaith relations and Christian identity
• Implications for law observance, Christian Seders, and Jewish-Gentile church life
• Abrahamic faiths and typology: getting Christianity and Judaism right as foundation for interreligious dialogue

Production Notes

• This episode was made possible by the generous support of the Tyndale House Foundation
• This podcast featured R. Kendall Soulen
• Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa
• Hosted by Evan Rosa
• Production Assistance by Alexa Rollow and Emily Brookfield
• A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/about
• Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

Clinical psychologist Alexis Abernethy explores burnout, Sabbath rest, and resilience—reframing rest as spiritual practice for individuals and communities.

“For me, it’s knowing that the Lord has made me as much to work as much to be and to be still and know that he is God.”

On this episode, clinical psychologist Alexis Abernethy (Fuller Seminary) joins Macie Bridge to discuss burnout, Sabbath, worship, mental health, and resilience in the life of the church. Defining burnout through its dimensions of emotional exhaustion, depersonalization, and reduced sense of accomplishment, Abernethy reflects on how church life can intensify these dynamics even as it seeks to heal them. Drawing from scripture, theology, psychology, and her own experience in the Black church and academic worlds, she reorients us to Sabbath as more than self-care: a sacred practice of being still before God. Sabbath, she argues, is not a quick fix but a preventive rhythm that sustains resilience in leaders and congregations alike. Along the way, she points to the necessity of modeling rest, the impact of daily and weekly spiritual rhythms, and the communal posture that makes Sabbath transformative.

1. “For me, it’s knowing that the Lord has made me as much to work as much to be and to be still and know that he is God.”
2. “Often people have overextended themselves in face of crises, other circumstances over a period of time, and it’s just not really sustainable, frankly, for anyone.”
3. “We act as if working hard and excessively is dutiful and really what the Lord wants—but that’s not what He wants.”
4. “When you are still with the Lord, you look different when you’re active.”
5. “Sabbath rest allows you to literally catch your own breath, but also then be able to see what the congregation needs.”

• That Their Work Will Be a Joy, Kurt Frederickson & Cameron Lee
• Howard Thurman, Meditations of the Heart
• Emily Dickinson, “Some Keep the Sabbath” (Poetry Foundation)

Alexis Abernethy is a clinical psychologist and professor in the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Her research explores the intersection of spirituality and health, with particular focus on Christian spirituality, church leadership, and group therapy models.

• Burnout in Church Leadership and Congregational Life
• Defining Burnout: Emotional Exhaustion, Depersonalization, and Reduced Accomplishment
• Spiritual Misconceptions of Work and Duty
• Sabbath as Sacred Rest, Not Just Self-Care
• Silence, Stillness, and the Presence of God
• Scriptural Foundations for Sabbath: Psalm 23, Psalm 46, John 15
• The Role of Pastors in Modeling Rest
• Pandemic Lessons for Church Rhythms and Participation
• Emily Dickinson and Creative Visions of Sabbath
• Resilience Through Sabbath: Lessons from New Orleans Pastors
• Practical Practices for Sabbath in Everyday Life

• Exodus 20:8-11: 8 Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work. 10 But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and consecrated it.
• Opening framing on burnout, Sabbath, and confusion about self-care
• Introduction of Alexis Abernethy, her background as psychologist and professor
• Childhood in a lineage of Methodist pastors and formative worship experiences
• Early academic path: Howard University, UC Berkeley, affirmation from her father
• Defining burnout: emotional exhaustion, depersonalization, reduced accomplishment
• “I’m just stuck. I used to enjoy my job.”
• The church as both source of fulfillment and site of burnout
• Misconceptions of spirituality equating overwork with duty
• Reference: That Their Work Will Be a Joy (Frederickson & Lee)
• Scriptural reflections: Psalm 23, Psalm 46, John 15
• Stillness, quiet, and Howard Thurman on solitude
• “When you are still with the Lord, you look different when you’re active.”
• Sabbath as sacred rest, not a quick fix or pill
• Pastors modeling Sabbath for congregations, including personal family time
• COVID reshaping church rhythms and recalculating commitment costs
• Emily Dickinson’s poem “Some Keep the Sabbath”
• Lessons from New Orleans pastors after Hurricane Katrina
• Sabbath as resilience for leaders and congregations
• Practical steps: scripture meditation, playlists, Lectio Divina, cultivating quiet
• Closing invitation: Sabbath as both individual discipline and community posture

Production Notes

• This podcast featured Alexis Abernethy
• Interview by Macie Bridge
• Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa
• Hosted by Evan Rosa
• Production Assistance by Alexa Rollow and Emily Brookfield
• A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/about
• Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

The Gospel of John is a gospel of superabundance. The cosmic Christ made incarnate would of course yield an absolute superabundance of grace, love, and unity.

What makes John’s Gospel so distinct from the Synoptics? Why does it continue to draw readers into inexhaustible depths of meaning? In this conversation, theologian David Ford reflects on his two-decade journey writing a commentary on John. Together with Drew Collins, he explores John’s unique blend of theology, history, and literary artistry, describing it as a “gospel of superabundance” that continually invites readers to trust, to reread, and to enter into deeper life with Christ. Together they explore themes of individuality and community; friendship and love; truth, reconciliation, and unity; the tandem vision of Jesus as both cosmic and intimate; Jesus’s climactic prayer for unity in chapter 17. And ultimately the astonishing superabundance available in the person of Christ. Along the way, Ford reflects on his interfaith reading practices, his theological friendships, and the vital role of truth and love for Christian witness today.

“There’s always more in John’s gospel … these big images of light and life in all its abundance.”

Episode Highlights

1. “It is a gospel for beginners. But also it’s endlessly rich, endlessly deep.”
2. “There’s always more in John’s gospel and he has these big images of light and, life in all its abundance.”
3. “It all culminates in love. Father, I desire that those also you, whom you have given me, may be with me.”
4. “On the cross, evil, suffering, sin, death happened to Jesus. But Jesus happens to evil, suffering, sin, death.”
5. “We have to go deeper into God and Jesus, deeper into community, and deeper into the world.”

Show Notes

• David Ford on writing a commentary on John over two decades
• John’s Gospel compared to the Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke)
• John as theological history writing (Rudolf Schnackenburg)
• John’s purpose statement in chapter 20: written so that you may trust
• “A gospel for beginners” with simple language and cosmic depth
• John as a gospel of superabundance: light, life, Spirit without measure
• John’s focus on individuals: Nicodemus, Samaritan woman, man born blind, Martha, Mary, Lazarus
• The Beloved Disciple and John’s communal authorship
• Friendship, love, and unity in the Farewell Discourses (John 13–17)
• John 17 as the most profound chapter in Scripture
• The crisis of rewriting: scrapping 15 years of writing to begin anew
• Scriptural reasoning with Jews, Muslims, and Christians on John’s Gospel
• Wrestling with John 8 and the polemics against “the Jews”
• Reconciliation across divisions
• John’s vision of discipleship: learning, loving, praying, and living truth

Helpful Links and Resources

• David Ford, The Gospel of John: A Theological Commentary
• Rudolf Schnackenburg, The Gospel According to St. John

About David Ford

David F. Ford is Regius Professor of Divinity Emeritus at the University of Cambridge. He has written extensively on Christian theology, interfaith engagement, and scriptural reasoning. His most recent work is The Gospel of John: A Theological Commentary (Baker Academic, 2021). Ford is co-founder of the Cambridge Interfaith Programme and the Rose Castle Foundation.

Production Notes

• This podcast featured David Ford
• Interview by Drew Collins
• Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa
• Hosted by Evan Rosa
• Production Assistance by Macie Bridge, Alexa Rollow, and Emily Brookfield
• A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/about
• Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give
• This episode was made possible in part by the generous support of the Tyndale House Foundation. For more information visit Tyndale.foundation.

Miroslav Volf critiques ambition, love of status, and superiority, offering a Christ-shaped vision of agapic love and humble glory.

“’And if you received it, why do you boast as if it were not a gift?’ If you received everything you have as a gift and if your existence as the recipient is also a gift, all ground for boasting is gone. Correspondingly, striving for superiority over others, seeking to make oneself better than others and glorying in that achievement, is possible only as an existential lie. It is not just a lie that all strivers and boasters tell themselves. More troublingly, that lie is part of the ideology that is the wisdom of a certain twisted and world-negating form of the world.”

In Lecture 5, the final of his Gifford Lectures, Miroslav Volf offers a theological and moral vision that critiques the dominant culture of ambition, superiority, and status. Tracing the destructive consequences of Epithumic desire and the relentless “race of honors,” Volf contrasts them with agapic love—God’s self-giving, unconditional love. Drawing from Paul’s Christ hymn in Philippians 2 and philosophical insights from Rousseau, Nietzsche, and Max Scheler, Volf reveals the radical claim that striving for superiority is not merely harmful but fundamentally false. Through Christ’s self-emptying, even to the point of death, we glimpse a redefinition of glory that subverts all worldly hierarchies. The love that saves is the love that descends. In a world ravaged by competition, inequality, and devastation, Volf calls for fierce, humble, and world-affirming love—a love that mends what can be mended, and makes the world home again.

Episode Highlights

1. “Striving for superiority over others… is possible only as an existential lie.”
2. “Jesus Christ was no less God and no less glorious at his lowest point.”
3. “To the extent that I’m striving for superiority, I cannot love myself unless I am the GOAT.”
4. “God cancels the standards of the kind of aspiration whose goal is superiority.”
5. “This is neither self-denial nor denial of the world. This is love for the world at work.”

Show Notes

• Agapic love vs. Epithemic desire and self-centered striving
• “Striving for superiority… is possible only as an existential lie.”
• Paul’s hymn in Philippians 2 and the “race of shame”
• Rousseau: striving for superiority gives us “a multitude of bad things”
• Nietzsche’s critique of Christianity and pursuit of power
• Max Scheler: downward love, not upward striving
• “Jesus Christ was no less God and no less glorious at his lowest point.”
• Self-love as agapic: “I am entirely a gift to myself.”
• Raphael’s Transfiguration and the chaos below
• Demon possession as symbolic of systemic and spiritual powerlessness
• “To the extent that I’m striving for superiority, I cannot love myself unless I am the GOAT.”
• “The world is the home of God and humans together.”
• God’s love affirms the dignity of even the most unlovable creature
• Love as spontaneous overflow, not moral condescension
• “Mending what can be mended… mourning with those who mourn and dancing with those who rejoice.”

Production Notes

• This podcast featured Miroslav Volf
• Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa
• Hosted by Evan Rosa
• Production Assistance by Taylor Craig and Macie Bridge
• A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/about
• Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give
• Special thanks to Dr. Paul Nimmo, Paula Duncan, and the media team at the University of Aberdeen. Thanks also to the Templeton Religion Trust for their support of the University of Aberdeen’s 2025 Gifford Lectures and to the McDonald Agape Foundation for supporting Miroslav’s research towards the lectureship.

Miroslav Volf explores agapic love, creation’s goodness, and God’s grief—an alternative to despair, power, and world rejection.

“When a wanted child is born, the immense joy of many parents often renders them mute, but their radiant faces speak of surprised delight: ‘Just look at you! It is so very good that you are here!’ This delight precedes any judgment about the beauty, functionality, or moral rectitude of the child. The child’s sheer existence, the mere fact of it, is ‘very good.’ That’s what I propose God, too, exclaimed, looking at the new-born world. And that unconditional love grounds creation’s existence.”

In this fourth Gifford Lecture, Miroslav Volf contrasts the selective and self-centered love of Ivan Karamazov with the radically inclusive, unconditional love of Father Zosima. Drawing deeply from Dostoevsky’s The Brothers Karamazov, Genesis’s creation and flood narratives, and Hannah Arendt’s concept of amor mundi, Volf explores a theology of agapic love: unearned, universal, and enduring. This is the love by which God sees creation as “very good”—not because it is perfect, but because it exists. It’s the love that grieves corruption without destroying it, that sees responsibility as mutual, and that offers the only hope for life in a deeply flawed world. With references to Luther, Nietzsche, and modern visions of power and desire, Volf challenges us to ask what kind of love makes a world, sustains it, and might one day save it. “Love the world,” he insists, “or lose your soul.”

Episode Highlights

1. “The world will either be loved with unconditional love, or it'll not be loved at all.”
2. “Unconditional love abides. If the object of love is in a state that can be celebrated, love rejoices. If it is not, love mourns and takes time to help bring it back to itself.”
3. “Each is responsible for all. Each is guilty for all. Each needs forgiveness from all. Each must forgive all.”
4. “Creation is not primarily sacramental or iconic. It is an object of delight both for humans and for God.”
5. “Agapic love demands nothing from the beloved, though it cares and hopes much for them and for the shared world with them.”

Show Notes

• Schopenhauer and Nietzsche’s visions of happiness: pleasure and power as substitutes for love
• “Love as hunger”: the devouring nature of epithemic desire
• Ivan Karamazov’s tragic love for life—selective, gut-level, and self-focused
• “There is still… this wild and perhaps indecent thirst for life in me”
• Father Zosima’s universal love for “every leaf and every ray of God’s light”
• “Love man also in his sin… Love all God’s creation”
• Sonya and Raskolnikov in Crime and Punishment: love as restoration
• “She loved him and stayed with him—not although he murdered, but because he murdered”
• God’s declaration in Genesis: “And look—it was very good”
• Hannah Arendt’s amor mundi—“I want you to be” as pure affirmation
• Creation as gift: “Each is itself by being more than itself”
• Martin Luther on marriage, sex, and delight as godly pleasures
• The flood as hypothetical: divine grief replaces divine destruction
• “It grieved God to his heart”—grief as a form of agapic love
• “Each is responsible for all. Each is guilty for all.”
• Agape over erotic love: not reward and punishment, but faithful presence and care
• “Agapic love demands nothing… It is free, sovereign to love, humble.”
• Closing invitation: to live the life of love, under whatever circumstances

Production Notes

• This podcast featured Miroslav Volf
• Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa
• Hosted by Evan Rosa
• Production Assistance by Taylor Craig and Macie Bridge
• A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/about
• Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give
• Special thanks to Dr. Paul Nimmo, Paula Duncan, and the media team at the University of Aberdeen. Thanks also to the Templeton Religion Trust for their support of the University of Aberdeen’s 2025 Gifford Lectures and to the McDonald Agape Foundation for supporting Miroslav’s research towards the lectureship.

Miroslav Volf critiques Nietzsche’s vision of power, love, and suffering—and offers Jesus’s unconditional love as a more excellent way.

The idea that competitive and goalless striving to increase one's power is the final Good, does very important work in Nietzsche’s philosophy. For Nietzsche, striving is good. Happiness does not rest in feeling that one's power is growing. In the modern world, individuals are, as Nietzsche puts it, ‘crossed everywhere with infinity.’ …

And therefore condemn to ceaseless striving … The will to power aims at surpassing the level reached at any given time. And that goal can never be reached. You're always equally behind.

Striving for superiority so as to enhance power does not just elevate some, the stronger ones. If the difference in power between parties increases, the weak become weaker in socially significant sense, even if their power has objectively increased. Successful striving for superiority inferiorizes.”

In this third installment of his Gifford Lectures, Miroslav Volf offers a trenchant critique of Friedrich Nietzsche’s moral philosophy—especially his exaltation of the will to power, his affirmation of eternal suffering, and his agonistic conception of love. Nietzsche, Volf argues, fails to cultivate a love that can endure possession, withstand unworthiness, or affirm the sheer existence of the other. Instead, Nietzsche’s love quickly dissolves into contempt. Drawing from Christian theology, and particularly Jesus’s teaching that God causes the sun to rise on the evil and the good alike, Volf explores a different kind of love—agapic, unconditional, and presuppositionless. He offers a vision of divine love that is not driven by need or achievement but that affirms existence itself, regardless of success, strength, or status. In the face of suffering, Nietzsche's amor fati falters—but Jesus’s embrace endures.

Episode Highlights

1. "The sun, in fact, has no need to bestow its gift of light and warmth. It gains nothing from imparting its gifts."
2. "Love that is neither motivated by need nor based on worthiness—that is the kind of love Nietzsche thought prevented Jesus from loving humanity and earth."
3. "Nietzsche aspires to transfiguration of all things through value-bestowing life, but he cannot overcome nausea over humans."
4. "God’s love for creatures is unconditional. It is agapic love for the states in which they find themselves."
5. "Love can only flicker. It moves from place to place because it can live only between places. If it took an abode, it would die."

Show Notes

• Miroslav Volf’s engagement with Nietzsche’s work
• Friedrich Nietzsche’s critique of Christianity as life-denying and his vision of the will to power
• Schopenhauer’s hedonism vs. Nietzsche’s anti-hedonism: “What is good? Everything that heightens the feeling of power.”
• The will to power as Nietzsche’s supreme value and “hyper-good”
• “The will to power is not a philosophy of life—it’s a philosophy of vitality.”
• Nietzsche’s agonism: the noble contest for superiority among equally powerful opponents
• “Every GOAT is a GOAT only for a time.”
• Amor fati: Nietzsche’s love of fate and affirmation of all existence
• Nietzsche’s ideal of desire without satisfaction: “desiring to desire”
• Dangers of epithumic (need-based, consuming) love
• “Love cannot abide. Its shelf life is shorter than a two-year-old’s toy... If it took an abode, it would die.”
• Nietzsche’s nausea at the weakness and smallness of humanity: “Nausea, nausea... alas, man recurs eternally.”
• Zarathustra’s conditional love: based on worthiness, wisdom, and power
• “Joy in tearing down has fully supplanted love’s delight in what is.”
• Nietzsche’s failure to love the unworthy: “His love fails to encompass the great majority of actually living human beings.”
• Volf’s theological critique of striving, superiority, and contempt
• “Nietzsche affirms vitality at the expense of concrete human beings.”
• The biblical God’s love: “He makes his sun rise on the evil and the good.”
• “Even the poorest fisherman rows with golden oars.”
• Jesus’s unconditional love versus Nietzsche’s agonistic, conditional love
• Kierkegaard and Luther on the distinction between person and work
• Hannah Arendt’s political anthropology and enduring love in the face of unworthiness
• Volf’s proposal for a theology of loving the present world in its broken form
• “We can actually long also for what we have.”
• “Love that cannot take an abode will die.”
• A vision of divine, presuppositionless love that neither requires need nor merit