“And a lot of people say, oh gosh, you know, friendship is so hard because everybody's so busy. I'm so busy, our schedules don't align. Therefore, “friendship is hard”. And I'm like, are you sure about that?

Or is it actually that scheduling with busy calendars is hard. Prioritization is hard. Saying no to things so that you can say yes to the things you actually want to say yes to is hard. Those things are hard. But those things aren't friendship and those things are a part of every other part of life as well.” - Kat

Friendship doesn’t happen by accident in adulthood. And despite what the internet says, it’s not just about “finding your people.” You have to actually do something—and that can feel impossibly hard when your calendar is full and your energy’s shot.

In this episode, Jessica and Meg talk with Kat Vellos—UX designer turned friendship expert—about how adult friendships form, why they fizzle, and what gets in the way. We talk about courage (yes, it still matters), frequency, and how friendship isn’t a productivity project—it’s a relationship. We also touch on the uncomfortable truth: as AI creeps further into our inboxes and interactions, it’s easier than ever to think we’re connected—without actually having any real closeness at all.

If you’ve ever said, “I want more friends, but…”—this one’s for you.

* Why building adult friendship isn’t harder—it just requires different skills

* The four foundations of real friendship: compatibility, proximity, frequency, and commitment

* What’s actually hard about making friends (spoiler: it’s courage, not conversation)

* The social cost of optimizing everything—including how we spend time with people

* Why “being too busy” is often a boundary issue in disguise

* How Jessica tries to find local friends who want to talk about cold outreach (and the real dilemma of niche interests + neighborhood proximity)

* The difference between a friendship activity and a productivity checklist

* How to start small, go first, and create connection without waiting for an invite

About our Guest

Kat Vellos is the go-to source for guidance about cultivating meaningful friendships and community. She’s author of the book, We Should Get Together: The Secret to Cultivating Better Friendships. Kat’s writing is read in over 100 countries, and she’s been interviewed by The New York Times, NPR, and many more.

What if friendship is easier than you think?

The Togetherness Thing

Make yourself a Friendship Joy Train

How to find real friendships online via the algorithm

Product: BFF Builder Bundle

Course: Unbusy Camp

Course: Platonic Action Lab

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Meg Casebolt

Jessica Lackey

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