David Plotz talks with journalist Gabriel Sherman about his new book Bonfire of the Murdochs: How the Epic Fight to Control the Last Great Media Dynasty Broke a Family—and the World. Sherman, who also wrote the bestselling biography of Fox News chief Roger Ailes, spent 15 years reporting on the Murdoch empire. In this book he turns his lens on the family itself — the rivalries, the wounds, and the secret Nevada courtroom battle that finally forced Rupert's hand.

Sherman sketches each of the three main Murdoch children: the shrewd and overlooked Elisabeth, the conservative golden child Lachlan, and the restless, brittle James. He explains how Rupert pitted each of his children against each other to consolidate his own power. He and Plotz explore the parallels between the Murdoch and Trump dynasties, debate whether a James-led Fox News could ever have been tethered to reality, and ask what happens to the empire once Rupert is gone. Sherman's prediction: Lachlan sells.

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Podcast production by Nina Porzucki.

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