Austin Abigt is a philosopher, writer, and one of the key members of the of the Renewal of Science movement, which seeks to chart a path for scientific rebirth. In this conversation, Abigt explains how modern science is the product of two distinct philosophical lineages - one founded by Newton and Descartes, the other by Goethe. The Newtonian paradigm, roughly summarized by "shut up and calculate" has been invaluable for the development of the modern world, but Abigt argues that its ability to keep moving us forward to a deeper and deeper understanding of nature is inherently limited. To be able to make progress, we have to turn to the alternative scientific thread, the Goethian one, that advocates for a more holistic approach to nature. Rather than demanding a single story, Abigt argues that it's time to embrace the inherent complexity of nature.