Good Beer Hunting

GBH founder—and one of the co-hosts of this podcast—Michael Kiser has previously described some episodes of this podcast as being "bucket-list" interviews. Folks like Brooklyn Brewery's Garrett Oliver and Allagash's Rob Todd, for example: folks who've played huge roles in shaping the industry as we know it and still continue to do so. Now, it's my turn. Today, I sit down for a conversation with Yvan de Baets, head brewer and co-founder of Brasserie de la Senne in Brussels, Belgium. You're more than likely already familiar with the beers that de la Senne produces. Despite only being in existence since 2003, its beers, such as the dry and bitter Taras Boulba and the balanced, rounded Zinnebir, could easily be described as timeless and iconic. These aren't words to be thrown around lightly, but try asking a brewer what his or her favorite beer is and more often than not, it'll be one of them. It's no surprise, either, as we'll learn from de Baets later in this episode that Taras Boulba is a beer made for brewers. De Baets was in town for a string of events centered around a new specialty Belgian beer festival here in London called Ales Tales. The night before we met for this interview we had hosted an event with him at The Prince in Wood Green, North London and our conversation picks up from the points we discussed that evening. This includes the origins of de la Senne and how their first beer was brewed in a Brussels squat, to just how intrinsic the Belgian capital is to everything this brewery does. Yvan pulls no punches when discussing what he calls "fake brewers," or what most of us know as contract, or so-called "gypsy brewers." He even goes as far as to call some of them a disease within the industry. He even weighs in on the use of Belgian beer terminology, such as Lambic and Gueuze, around the world—including the recent fracas between Jester King and HORAL .

My co-host Michael Kiser has previously described some episodes of this podcast as being "bucket-list" interviews. Folks like Brooklyn Brewery’s Garrett Oliver and Allagash’s Rob Todd, who’ve played huge roles in shaping the industry as we know it and still continue to do so. Now it’s my turn to tick an interview off my own personal bucket list, as I sit down for a conversation with Yvan de Baets, head brewer and co-founder of Brasserie de la Senne in Brussels, Belgium. You’re more than likely already familiar with the beers that Brasserie de la Senne produces. Despite only being in existence since 2003, its beers, such as the dry and bitter Taras Boulba and the balanced, rounded Zinnebir could easily be described as timeless and iconic. These aren’t words to be thrown around lightly but try asking a brewer what his or her favorite beer is and more often than not, it’ll be one of them. It’s no surprise that this is the case either, as we’ll learn from de Baets later in this episode that Taras Boulba is a beer made for brewers.  De Baets was in town for a string of events centered around a new specialty Belgian beer festival here in London called Ales Tales. The night before we met for this interview we had hosted an event with him at The Prince in Wood Green, North London and our conversation picks up from the points we discussed that evening. This includes the origins of de la Senne and how their first beer wasbrewed in a Brussels squat to just how intrinsic the Belgian capital is to everything this brewery does. Yvan pulls no punches when discussing what he calls "fake brewers"– what we might know as contract, or gypsy brewers – even going as far as to call some of them a disease within the industry. He even weighs in on the use of Belgian beer terminology, such as lambic and gueuze, around the world – including the recent fracas between Jester King and Horal.

My co-host Michael Kiser has previously described some episodes of this podcast as being "bucket-list" interviews. Folks like Brooklyn Brewery’s Garrett Oliver and Allagash’s Rob Todd, who’ve played huge roles in shaping the industry as we know it and still continue to do so. Now it’s my turn to tick an interview off my own personal bucket list, as I sit down for a conversation with Yvan de Baets, head brewer and co-founder of Brasserie de la Senne in Brussels, Belgium. You’re more than likely already familiar with the beers that Brasserie de la Senne produces. Despite only being in existence since 2003, its beers, such as the dry and bitter Taras Boulba and the balanced, rounded Zinnebir could easily be described as timeless and iconic. These aren’t words to be thrown around lightly but try asking a brewer what his or her favorite beer is and more often than not, it’ll be one of them. It’s no surprise that this is the case either, as we’ll learn from de Baets later in this episode that Taras Boulba is a beer made for brewers.  De Baets was in town for a string of events centered around a new specialty Belgian beer festival here in London called Ales Tales. The night before we met for this interview we had hosted an event with him at The Prince in Wood Green, North London and our conversation picks up from the points we discussed that evening. This includes the origins of de la Senne and how their first beer wasbrewed in a Brussels squat to just how intrinsic the Belgian capital is to everything this brewery does. Yvan pulls no punches when discussing what he calls "fake brewers"– what we might know as contract, or gypsy brewers – even going as far as to call some of them a disease within the industry. He even weighs in on the use of Belgian beer terminology, such as lambic and gueuze, around the world – including the recent fracas between Jester King and Horal.

Our resident composer for the podcast and our commercial video work, Andrew Thiboldeaux, is writing original scores devoted to beers he finds fascinating. These are interpretations of the experience of drinking them. But they're also just great tunes. Central State happens to be a client of GBH's studio team. However, Andrew chooses the beers he wants to score of his own volition.

Our resident composer for the podcast and our commercial video work, Andrew Thiboldeaux, is writing original scores devoted to beers he finds fascinating. These are interpretations of the experience of drinking them. But they're also just great tunes.

Our resident composer for the podcast and our commercial video work, Andrew Thiboldeaux, is writing original scores devoted to beers he finds fascinating. These are interpretations of the experience of drinking them. But they're also just great tunes.

So many breweries in start-up mode have a crystal clear vision for their future. But as they mature, and as the market shifts, and as those early days start to feel farther and farther away, we find out what a brewery is really made of. Do they stick with that adolescent firebrand kind of rhetoric? Or do they adopt a more practical outlook on what's possible—and even desirable—for a craft brewery? For most, it's somewhere in between. In today's market, a more diverse set of business models are available than ever before. Factor in changing state laws and consumer demand, and that vision for what a craft brewer can be is evolving quickly. What previously seemed counter to craft now seems perfectly permissible—encouraged, even. Just look at how the conversation around contract brewing—now oftentimes referred to as "gypsy" brewing—has shifted over time. That's an easy one, but what about things like cold storage? Staying local? And the recent interest in employee ownership and what they says about succession planing? Are we open to our ideas on those opinions changing too? We better be. Today's guest is Clay Robinson of Sun King, a guy who's gone on the record early and often about what he would and wouldn't do. And today, most of that, in hindsight, was short-sighted. But he's not letting it hold him back. Instead, he's casting off the burden of his former outlook and working hard to embrace a future where he thinks practically about his business, adopts a never-say-never attitude, and starts looking at things like grocery chains, conventional distribution, ESOP and acquisitions pros and cons, even distilling, as his potential growth plan going forward. This conversation is a wild ride through so many of the issues small breweries are wrestling with today, and Clay handles it with an uncanny transparency. I'm thankful I got a chance to sit down with him and hash out the details.

So many breweries in start-up mode have a crystal clear vision for their future. But as they mature, and the market shifts, and those early days feel farther and farther away, we start to see what a brewery is really made of. Do they stick with that adolescent fire-brand kind of rhetoric? Or do they adopt a more practical outlook on what’s possible, and even desirable, for a craft brewery? For most, it’s somewhere in between. 

In today’s market, a more diverse set of business models are available than every before with changing state laws and consumer demand and that means that the vision for what a craft brewer can be is evolving quickly. What previously seemed counter to craft now seems perfectly permissible, even encouraged. Just look at how the conversation around contract brewing, now called gypsy brewing, has shifted over time. 

That’s an easy one, but what about things like cold storage? Staying local? And the recent interest in Employee ownership and what they says about succession planing? Are we open to our ideas on those opinions changing too? We better be. 

Today’s guest is Clay Robinson of Sun King, and guy who’s gone on the record early and often about what he would and wouldn’t do. And today, most of that, in hindsight, was short sighted. But he’s not letting it hold him back - instead, he’s casting off the burden of his former outlook and working hard to embrace a future where he thinks practically about his business, adopts a never say never attitude, and starts looking at things like grocery chains, conventional distribution, ESOP and acquisitions pros and cons, even distilling as his potential growth plan going forward. 

This conversation is a wild ride through so many of the issues small breweries are wrestling with today, and Clay handles it with an uncanny transparency. I’m thankful I got a chance to sit down with him and hash out the details.

So many breweries in start-up mode have a crystal clear vision for their future. But as they mature, and the market shifts, and those early days feel farther and farther away, we start to see what a brewery is really made of. Do they stick with that adolescent fire-brand kind of rhetoric? Or do they adopt a more practical outlook on what’s possible, and even desirable, for a craft brewery? For most, it’s somewhere in between. 

In today’s market, a more diverse set of business models are available than every before with changing state laws and consumer demand and that means that the vision for what a craft brewer can be is evolving quickly. What previously seemed counter to craft now seems perfectly permissible, even encouraged. Just look at how the conversation around contract brewing, now called gypsy brewing, has shifted over time. 

That’s an easy one, but what about things like cold storage? Staying local? And the recent interest in Employee ownership and what they says about succession planing? Are we open to our ideas on those opinions changing too? We better be. 

Today’s guest is Clay Robinson of Sun King, and guy who’s gone on the record early and often about what he would and wouldn’t do. And today, most of that, in hindsight, was short sighted. But he’s not letting it hold him back - instead, he’s casting off the burden of his former outlook and working hard to embrace a future where he thinks practically about his business, adopts a never say never attitude, and starts looking at things like grocery chains, conventional distribution, ESOP and acquisitions pros and cons, even distilling as his potential growth plan going forward. 

This conversation is a wild ride through so many of the issues small breweries are wrestling with today, and Clay handles it with an uncanny transparency. I’m thankful I got a chance to sit down with him and hash out the details.

Welcome to another episode of The Fervent Few podcast. Every two weeks we present you with this bonus episode of the GBH podcast where we chat with members of our subscriber community. The Fervent Few subscribe to GBH like a magazine making a monthly contribution via Patreon. Members join us in a forum to talk about a wide range of topics that doesn't just stop at beer. And every week we pick one of these topics and present the community's answers to readers in the form of an article posted to Good Beer Hunting. You can find out more information by visiting patreon.com/goodbeerhunting Today we're going to call Kate Nolan a freelance social media manager from the suburbs of Chicago and Brad Redick a sales manager from the Dallas, TX area . But before we talk to them here's Michael Kiser and I talking about what's been going on since the last episode.