Gospel Conversations podcast

In this latest edition in the Cross and Creation series, Tony and Andrew explore some of the metaphors for what happened at Calvary. None of them really fit the Penal Substitution metaphor.  They range over several metaphors like reconciliation, and redemption, but focus in on adoption and dominion; Calvary was the great battle for dominion of the cosmos, and we are adopted into that kingship won at Calvary.  The episode begins with a recap of our journey thus far.

In this panel discussion, two Christian indigenous leaders explain some of their spiritual heritage and how they have found deep resonances with the creation gospel in them. David Hart joins in, and explains that, far from being heretical, their views are close to the original views on creation developed by the church Fathers – and in particular the brilliant 7th century theologian Maximus the Confessor.

The panel consisted of Australian First Nations Pastors Ray Minniecon and Gabriel Bani with David Benley Hart. Moderated by Tony Golsby Smith.

Recorded at St Johns, Glebe, Sydney on Aug 17th 2023.

David Bentley Hart on Suffering This is the first talk from David Bentley Hart during his visit to Australia. He addresses the vexed topic of suffering based on his book ‘The Doors of the Sea’. This talk is followed by a long series of questions which take the topic – and David’s views – deeper and more personal.

Tony opens up the wild, imagery laden world of Ezekiel 1 in this talk. He views it through the lens of literature and imagery in particular.  And he explains how it is among the most innovative and paradigm shifting chapters in the history of the Old Testament – as Ezekiel discovers the ‘ubiquitous God’ who operates far beyond the tidy religious confines of Jerusalem – a Jerusalem that is about to be destroyed anyway.

The Grand Inquisitor (2) on Miracles as a counterfeit for faith

Tony gives us a second talk on the Grand Inquisitor and his assault on God and the re-vitalised Christ. In this talk Tony explains why the Inquisitor sees the human desire for miracles as false religion – and something that denies God what he wants. God wants his presence on earth not spectacular invasions of normalcy – which miracles are.  So they cannot be the staple diet of a faithful life. Instead we must recognise the sacred space of the natural world we live in… and this theme will take us right back to Ezekiel!

In this session they Tony and Andrew look at some of the alternative theories of atonement over the history of the church – and how they have led to the dominance of the ‘penal substitutionary atonement’ theory of today. As always, our spirit is one of inquiry and discovery not dogma – so Andrew and Tony will continue to examine different perspectives around this theory that is so central to our faith.

Tony Golsby-Smith introduces the upcoming Gospel Conversations conference to be held in Sydney on the 25/26th August. He expresses the excitement that we all hold in anticipation of his visit. He also explains that Gospel Conversations is not just inviting a big name but rather a speaker who can help us to put the Lord Jesus Christ on a much higher pedestal than traditional Protestantism has done in the past.

For this episode Andrew is in conversation with Leisa Aitken as they discuss Andrew's paper on the "Sacrifice of Isaac". The paper was a short exegesis on Genesis 22 and can be found at this  link

Tony continues looking at Ezekiel 12 - 14, this time through the lens of Dostoievsky’s ‘Grand Inquisitor’. 

Tony takes us into Dostoievsky’s famous imaginary confrontation where the Inquisitor berates Jesus for ‘overestimating’ humanity and wanting too much from them - love rather than servility. He draws a deep comparison between this and the idolatrous mindset.