What was discovered at Hawn's Mill? Archaeologist Paul Debarthe from the Community of Christ details musket balls, and why he refuses to find the well where 17 men at boys were buried following the massacre at Hawn's Mill. Check out our conversation...

https://youtu.be/dakb9xavIXw

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Musket Fire at Hawn's Mill

GT  00:31  Well, I know I've kept you long time Paul and it's getting late. Do you have any last thoughts? Is there anything as far as Hawn's Mill that we didn't cover? Actually, I think there is something, you did say that you found Musket Balls.

Paul  00:51  Yes. Yes, we found both the rifle and pistol balls. So it’s very good evidence of the battle that was conducted there. Some probably close to 500 Missouri regulars came in and there were probably as many as 30 people in Hawn's Mill at the time. The Hamlet was pretty small. It was a scattering of maybe a dozen buildings. And yes, there was a significant military incident that occurred there. And sadly, it was really a massacre for those 17 people. And, again, I would call to people's attention that it's so much better if we love each other.

GT  01:37  I agree.

Paul  01:41  It's not that difficult. I mean, I understand that there are people who get angry and want to go to war. We have an awful lot of heritage, that wants to go to war. But the call, as I understand it, of God to mankind, is that you don't have to be a dysfunctional family. You can overcome the dysfunctionality of your past. If you will learn to love each other, follow the teachings of the Christ. Recognize that to use a bit of compassion can be a good alternative. And when we are compassionate and follow the compact for compassion, it's just amazing how much better our lives can be. Look what difference it is, when, for example, you have the Iroquois Confederation where leaders take a vow to keep in mind the welfare of the children in every political decision they made. Even the unborn children. That was a priority. The women were the one that selected the men to go on the council. And if you offended a woman then you probably didn't get on that council. So, you had better mind your manners throughout your growing up life. But the tug and pull here, making it so that you have to keep in mind the benefit of the children with every political decision you make, made it so that the Iroquois Confederation was a powerful, strong, beautiful Confederation. We have a lot to learn from them. I am so convinced that the cause of Zion that Joseph Smith advocated so much is the promised land that is still before us. And we can learn to not be so dysfunctional. If we follow the message of my sweet wife."Don't forget to love each other."

GT  03:30  I think that's a great place to leave. All right. Well, Paul DeBarthe, remind people what the name of your book is again.

Paul  03:41  Oh, here I had it open for the map. Hawn's Mills Hamlet.

GT  03:46  Okay.

Paul  03:47  And it's an archaeological investigation. Phase three archaeological investigation conducted by hands on history students in high school and college. The map inside will show you just a little bit of a sketch of what Hawn's Mill looks like. It's in Caldwell County, Missouri. It's a site that is an example of lessons in history that we need to learn. There's an awful lot of those. We're walking on 10,000 years of cultural residue, virtually everywhere we walk in America, or more. And we generally don't appreciate it. The fact we bulldoze the buildings that are 20 years old and replace them because we got something better now. And we put parking lots and apartment houses on the ancient sites and pay no attention to the people that were covering over that way. We can do a better job of appreciating and respecting our heritage, our own culture but other people's cultures.

Rick Bennett discusses the Q&A given by Community of Christ leaders earlier this week and shares photos from some of the properties in Nauvoo sold to the LDS Church last week. He also answers viewer questions. Check out our conversation...

https://youtube.com/live/2gfppMuScRI

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Unlike the LDS Church where unanimity is almost an article of faith, the Community of Christ has an official church position on faithful disagreement. The Church has a long history of disagreement and we'll even allude to the Milk Strippings story, where the Standing High Council ruled against Thomas Marsh, pres of the Quorum of 12 Apostles. The CoC still has this Standing High Council. (Brigham abolished it in the LDS Church.) Check out our conversation...

https://youtu.be/OdMdsCzmy6A

Don’t miss our other conversations with Brittany: https://gospeltangents.com/people/brittany-mangelson

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In the LDS Church it is routine to ordain teenagers to be deacons, teachers, and priests. In the Community of Christ, these roles are filled by adults. How are the roles different? We'll talk about that with Community of Christ pastor Brittany Mangelson. We'll also talk about the roles of Seventies in the two churches. Check out our conversation...

https://youtu.be/mafpZ5fIKJE

Don’t miss our other conversations with Brittany: https://gospeltangents.com/people/brittany-mangelson

transcript to follow

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Unlike the LDS Church, the Community of Christ has open baptism from other Christian churches as long as the person was at least 8 years old at the time of baptism. We'll talk more about the move to change baptism requirements and discuss priesthood ordination. Check out our conversation....

https://youtu.be/uBYWtBogU_A

Don’t miss our other conversations with Brittany: https://gospeltangents.com/people/brittany-mangelson

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Brittany Mangelson is the Pastor for the Community of Christ in Salt Lake City. We'll discuss her conversion to Community of Christ, the difference between a pastor & a bishop, and her podcast called Project Zion. Check out our conversation....

https://youtu.be/npZWOdCChxQ

Don’t miss our other conversations with Josh: https://gospeltangents.com/people/brittany-mangelson

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Rick B held a livestream video discussing the purchase of the Kirtland Temple by the LDS Church this week. Of course, there is a lot of interest in the temple. We'll talk about that and the other properties included in the transaction, including the Nauvoo properties, and several important artifacts

https://youtube.com/live/7FSCM92meOE

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What takeaways does David Boice have from attending more than 104 churches? The author and host of 52 Churches in 52 Weeks will tell us, and also tell us what ideas he has for a future project. Check out our conversation....

https://youtu.be/KGzeAPw4czA

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Takeaways from 104 Churches

Interview

GT  00:28  Are there any other takeaways? Has your spirituality increased, decreased, going to these 100+ churches?

David  00:38  Yes, I will say, when I did it, the first time I compare it to Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. (Daniel Chapter 3) I felt like my faith was on fire when I was doing it. One of the tricky things that happened, when I stopped doing it the first time, was then I started to go--I was so high, with all the novelty of it, that when I stopped, then things went down.

GT  01:02  Right.

David  01:02  And I think one of the biggest takeaways from that is the importance of church community. Because I'm seeing all these different churches I am observing. But I'm not really getting the full church community. And so afterwards, with this current 52 Churches in 52 Weeks, that was one thing I was looking more for: Let me plug into a church afterwards. Let me get that church community and get a better sense of that. That is a lot more difficult than I thought, especially from my faith background.

GT  01:41  Especially from the LDS, we're always like, are you going to join? Are you going to join? Do you have any affinity towards any of these, Baptists, Pentecostal, Episcopal, anything like that? Catholic?

David  01:51  It's interesting after doing this now, because before, I termed myself as inter-denominational. So, with all these different denominations, I want to be as open and welcoming as possible. Now, after completing this, I feel like this blender of appreciation for all these different types of churches, for those that I found a lot of appreciation with. Now, I'm like, what am I? Am I 70% Protestant, 20% Latter Day Saint, 10% Catholic, maybe 1% Seventh Day Adventist? I don't know. It a mix...

GT  02:39  Well, you didn't say Lutheran in there. I thought that would be in there.

David  02:41  I guess, with Protestant. I'm just grouping in all the Protestant denominations.

GT  02:46  Uh huh.

David  02:46  But it's interesting after completing that, because I see something really, really good, like from LDS, from a family aspect. But then I look also at maybe a different church over here, with Roman Catholics, I see the appreciation that they have for all these senses, and how that impacts spirituality. Then, I see all these different types of Protestant views, with the Pentecostals and the snake handling. I'm not saying I'm going to turn [to] snake handling or hold a snake anytime, ever, ever. Yeah. {Rick laughing}

GT  03:26  You're like Indiana Jones?

David  03:27  Yeah. But you see different things. And then you also empathize with some of the struggles that some of these churches are going through, as well. And I feel like with my channel, especially for those that may be going through a faith crisis, I at least hope that it helps people just to see what else is out there. Because it's easy for me, as a first-time visitor, of course, as a newcomer, it's going to be a positive experience for the most part, because you're not seeing the warts. You're not seeing the bad. You're seeing everything good. But I don't know where I was finishing with that thought. You become a little bit of everything, I feel, when you see so much.

GT  04:09  So are you going to continue with a third 52 weeks? Or are you just going to your Lutheran Church? Or what are you doing now?[1]

David  04:16  That's a big question. With a third one, I'm playing around with different ideas. Because it is expensive, it takes up a lot of time.

I was surprised to discover that the Church of Jesus Christ has no official position on Trinity or Godhead when it comes to the nature of God. What do they believe? Evangelist Josh Gehly gives both official and personal beliefs. Check out our conversation....

https://youtu.be/U2xttRWHLw4

Don’t miss our other conversations with Josh: https://gospeltangents.com/people/josh-gehly

transcript to follow

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GT  00:43  All right. So just to finish up then, it sounds like you've got a president. He's got two counselors. 

Josh  00:52  Yes, those three are included with nine other apostles. 

GT  00:55  Correct. Then you have a single Quorum of Seventy, and your [Seventies] mission, or you're responsibility is mainly for missionary work and administering to small branches throughout the world. 

Josh  01:10  Exactly, just like Matthew 10, the Lord calls Twelve, and they are the apostles. We look at Luke Chapter 10, the Lord calls Seventy, and we believe they are the evangelists. That's our extrapolation and interpretation of that scripture. So, that's our source text for it and where we go. So, yeah, we have a Quorum of Seventy Evangelists. 

GT  01:33  Okay. And then in the LDS Church, we have multiple Quorums of Seventy. Oh, we haven't talked about the Doctrine & Covenants, because in the Doctrine and Covenants, it says we can have seven Quorums of Seventy. And I know that William Bickerton, especially, was a big proponent of Joseph Smith's revelation on the Civil War. 

Josh  01:59  Right, yeah. You'll find that around our branch. 

GT  02:02  He kind of liked the baptisms for the dead, but that died out as well. 

Josh  02:07  Yeah, hard to track that, really. 

GT  02:09  We talked to Daniel Stone about that. But so do you know why your church decided to abandon the Doctrine and Covenants? Besides polygamy, that's the obvious one. 

Josh  02:24  I'm not sure I can speak on behalf of the church of the 1850s and 60s, perfectly. I do have ancestry that goes back that far, but... 

GT  02:34  Oh, really?  

Josh  02:35  Yeah, I'm six generations deep, thank God. 

GT  02:38  Wow. 

Josh  02:41  But I would say that, I think, for us, when we interpret Ezekiel 37, about the two sticks, we look at that as the Bible and Book of Mormon. We don't see a third book being discussed in that moment. And so, there's a lot of good revelations that are from that time period. There are revelations about the three and eight witnesses. I would, obviously, accept that as being from the Lord. But our church does not canonize any of that. We don't regard them, necessarily, or have any authoritative stance or position on one versus the other. But for us, when we read Ezekiel 37, we read about two books becoming one in God's hand, two sticks, becoming the one in God's hand for the redemption of Israel and the glory of the latter-day work. That's what we believe we have in the Bible and Book of Mormon, and that's why we're a two-book church. We look forward to records to come. The Book of Mormon obviously talks about the brass plates never dimming. The Book of Mormon talks about the sealed portion and the revelation and the gift of the brother Jared. So, through the word of God, we have prophetic promise of more to come. But I don't read anywhere in the Book of Mormon that says, and there will be a book that comes from the Gentiles or comes from the from this restoration. I don't read that, necessarily. 

GT  04:05  Okay. Yep. And then so I guess we need to go into Pearl of Great Price. You guys have never accepted the Book of Abraham or books of Moses or anything like that, or even the Inspired Version of the Bible. 

Josh  04:20  Correct. Yeah, we don't, even though that was Rigdon and Joseph Smith's project together. I mean, in tandem they did the bulk of that work,

What's it like to attend a Bickertonite Church service? Rick Bennett (LDS) & Josh Gehly (Bickertonite) share their experiences attending the Church of Jesus Christ. Did you know that each week, they ask the congregation if they would like to receive a blessing by laying on of hands? Find out more in our next conversation...

https://youtu.be/U6c4aoMblMM

Don’t miss our other conversations with Josh: https://gospeltangents.com/people/josh-gehly

 

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GT  0:35 It's so fun. Going back both to my meeting in Florida, as well as when I attended Reid's baptism a couple of months ago, in both cases, and I believe you do this every week. Correct me if I'm wrong. You have what we would [call,] I guess, the first hour is usually Sunday school. Is that right? [You meet] for about an hour.  

Josh  01:00  Yes, we'd like to do a scripture study. We like to give something for the kids. Usually that's happening first. 

GT  01:07  And so that's typically Bible, Book of Mormon preaching sort of thing.  

Josh  01:12  Yes, very much so engaged; Hopefully, it's done, right, unless it's really, really—the spirit takes over, which we're okay with that, usually, it's Q&A. Let's read these verses. Let's talk about them. What does this mean for you? What's the Lord speaking here? It can be really, if it's done right, hopefully, we're really engaging with the congregation where they feel a part of the lesson. 

GT  01:37  And so then the second hour, you usually have what we would call a sacrament meeting. I don't know if you call it communion or sacrament. 

Josh  01:48  Communion is fine. Often, I call it the Lord's Supper. It’s all fair. 

GT  01:53  Do you do that every week? 

Josh  01:54  Every Sunday, yes. 

GT  01:55  Okay, so that's similar to ours. 

Josh  01:56  Sometimes we have the freedom. This is something that's a little unique. If there's a meeting, and a minister feels to have communion on a Wednesday, great! 

GT  02:09  Okay. 

Josh  02:10  Now, does that happen? Not very often. But that is certainly allowed. We have done that. I mean, it’s under inspiration. When the Spirit speaks, we really want to be the church that Moroni talks about, where he says, "Our meetings were conducted after the manner of the workings of the spirit, whether to pray, whether to preach or exhort, to supplicate, to sing." We want to be that. And so yeah, we have [in our meetings,] you're going to see a Sunday School lesson. You're going to see some type of worship service. There is going to be the Lord's Supper there. Usually, there's going to be testimonies, opportunity for people stand up and praise God. You're going to have the opportunity to have hands laid on you for strength or for anointing, for healing. Those things are all offered, and typical.  But the way that might get mixed up, or on a random Wednesday, you come in and all of a sudden, the table is set. And now we're in for a spiritual good time together. 

GT  03:10  Okay. And that was what I found interesting was, we would have a testimony meeting once a [month] and in our church, it's almost always on the first Sunday. Sometimes we'll move it to the second Sunday or the last Sunday, whatever. But typically, it's the first Sunday of the month, we will have a testimony meeting. But it seems like you have a testimony meeting, or what we would call testimony meeting every week. 

Josh  03:33  Yeah. Our meetings are not short. If you want to critique us and walk out and say, "That was long." I'm going to be like, yeah, that's us. So, we have testimony almost every Sunday. It's just pretty standard. It allows the congregation to stand up and glorify God for what he's done for them. 

GT  03:55  Right. Oh, well, and also, just to make sure that people are clear on this, you don't say, "Brother Bennett,