Matthew Gill is prophet of the Restored Branch of Jesus Christ. He tells why he thinks Joseph didn’t practice polygamy.

https://youtu.be/yW3QBy09eSo

Anti-Polygamy Stance

GT:  I'm going to try really hard not to argue with you about polygamy, but can you just give some justifications why you think Joseph Smith was not a polygamist? Before 2005, did you believe Joseph was a polygamist?

Matthew:  Oh, that's a good question.

GT:  You hadn't given it much thought?

Matthew:  It's not a thing that really came up in. I mean, obviously, we knew polygamy was there. We knew it was there, I don't know about your ward, but it's not something that was really spoken about in great depth every other week at church. Now, obviously, it wasn't something that I grew up being really, really in-depth knowledge about. I mean, I knew it existed. But I really haven't given it much thought, I suppose, prior to 2005.

...

Matthew:  The first time that polygamy really became an issue for me, was when I'd left the LDS Church, and people were asking me questions, and people were saying to me, "Do you believe in polygamy?"  I'm like, "Well, I don't know. I don't think... Then, we have to go back, and then you study, for me, anyway. I know people believe in polygamy, and they practice it, some of them, and they hold dear to it. But, I don't believe that Joseph Smith was a polygamist. I certainly don't believe he sanctioned it. I really believe that he was going to do something about it before he was killed. Now, people say to me, how'd you get to that conclusion? Well, Joseph Smith, for me, spoke publicly on the issue many times and said, "People have accused me of these things, and I'm not."

Matthew:  They released, while they're in Nauvoo, even, they released a statement.  Hyrum Smith released a statement saying, that we are not polygamists. So, my feeling, look, I either believe Joseph Smith spoke to God, and when he spoke to people, he spoke to them as a prophet. So, I've got to believe in a Joseph Smith that was not only concealing sexual acts, or extracurricular activities, from his from his peers,  and was secretly involved in a secret society within his own church. I just, I'm sorry, I don't believe that. I just don't believe that's the sort of man he was. You could argue, as I do with people, well, the Book of Mormon condemns it. Other people say it doesn't condemn it, it supports it. Well, this is one of those arguments, for me, that you could go backwards and forwards it all night. Which leads, of course, wonderfully into the martyrdom. But, this is what we believe.  We don't believe he was a polygamist. We can show that Joseph Smith publicly stated, and the Church publicly stated it wasn't a polygamist organization. That's the Joseph Smith I want to believe in. It's not necessarily the Joseph Smith, everyone else believes in, but that's the Joseph Smith I believe in.

Book of Rayaneck

He also gives basic details about his church beliefs, and his newest scripture, the Book of Rayaneck.

GT: So, lets jump up to 2015 and the book of Rayaneck. So, how did you get that book and translate it? Was there an angel involved and that kind of thing?

Matthew:  I was given the book by Rayaneck.

GT:  Did he just drop it off?

Matthew:  I met him.

GT:  You met him, okay.

Matthew:  He gave me the book.

GT:  So, he was an angel?

Matthew:  No.

GT:  He's still [alive.] He never died. He’s like the three Nephites?

Matthew:  He's still here.  He gave me the book. Now, it was about yay high, fairly big. It was on, like parchment, I suppose.

GT:  So, it wasn't gold plates or brass plates.

Matthew:  No.

GT:  Okay.

Matthew:  So,

I was surprised to learn the LDS Church sued Matthew Gill, essentially to shut down his church. Matthew tells more about the suit.

https://youtu.be/XM99cP7nDzw

Sued by LDS Church

Matthew:  Then, one day, I come home, from taking my boys out, and I've got this big envelope with the LDS Church stamped all over it, and I'm like, "Uh oh," and then they go, "We're going to sue you."  I was like, "Oh, wow."  Our sites, I mean, we're not huge, and we don't have lots of money. So, you're not going to get much. So, we went to a lawyer, and we got lawyers, as best as we could. We took the fight to them as best as we could with our limited resources. Instead of them suing us, in the end, we came to an agreement, because the LDS Church wanted us to stop using the Book of Mormon. They wanted us to stop referring to Joseph Smith. They wanted us to basically give up everything that we believe that we are, and we simply can't do that. Because we believe the Book of Mormon is true. We believe Joseph Smith is a prophet of God. We can't just say we don't believe in those things. That's who we are. So, we came to an agreement that they would back off if we changed our name, pretty much. You know, touch wood, we're still alright. So, we changed that name. We changed the website.

GT:  This is in 20--, what year is this?

Matthew:  Oh, 2014.

GT:  Okay, so, now you're the Restored Branch. I think your website's the restoredbranch.org. Is that right?

Matthew:  Yeah, the restoredbranch.com.

GT:  Dot com, okay.

Matthew:  That's the beauty to get .com. Everything else is terrible. So, yeah, we just we changed our name, changed the website. We totally overhauled the website, put a big disclaimer on the website that we are not affiliated with the LDS Church in any way, shape or form, which is one of the prerequisites, of course.

GT:  But, you believe in the Book of Mormon.

Matthew:  We believe in the Book of Mormon, we believe Joseph Smith is a prophet of God, we don't believe in polygamy. We certainly don't believe Joseph was a polygamist.

Restored Branch Scripture

Matthew:  Yes, we threw out the Book of Abraham.  We've got the Book of Moses, because the Book of Moses is a part of the Inspired Version of the Bible, it's right there. So my argument is you don't need the book of Moses, if you're using the IVB. If you're using the Inspired Version, you don't need the Book of Moses. The only reason, in my opinion, the LDS Church used the Pearl of Great Price is, firstly, the Book of Abraham, and secondly, because they don't print out the Inspired Version of the Bible.  They print extracts from it, but they don't print the entire thing. So, hence, the need to put the Book of Moses into a new book of Scripture.

GT:  So, anyway, because I'm trying to remember, so you threw out the Book of Abraham, but you still probably have the First Vision, what's it called, Joseph Smith History?

Matthew:  Yeah, we have a we have a Joseph Smith history, which is taken from the Wentworth letter.

GT:  So you just call it the Wentworth letter?

Matthew:  No, no. We call it Joseph Smith History, because when Joseph Smith wrote the Wentworth letter, basically, he wrote a history of himself and the Church. So, we wanted a history, for obvious reasons, that wasn't linked to the LDS Church. So, the best one that we thought we would go with, was the last real history Joseph Smith gave, I suppose, was the Wentworth letter. So, we put that into our Doctrine & Covenants as Joseph Smith History.

GT:  So, you've got a new version of the Doctrine & Covenants.

Matthew:  Oh, we have our own version of the Doctrine & Covenants, yes.

Matthew Gill is a prophet of the Restored Branch of Jesus Christ. He claims to have translated an ancient record of the people of Stonehenge. What were their religious practices like?  Are they Christians?

https://youtu.be/JPFlJ3u8oMo

Pre-Jewish Christian Religious Practices

GT: So, as far as the religious practices, because this predates Abraham and Moses and everything, would there be like Christian practices? Would they be Jewish practices?

Matthew:  Yeah, they won't be Jewish. There won't be Jewish, and they won't be Christian. I mean, that's the problem, isn't it? Because whenever I talk to people about it, I always say, well, in the Book of Ether, which isn't very complicated to read, there's very, very, very few mentions of religious practices. I mean, if you read the Book of Ether, it's like a kings list of who ruled for how long, and who was in prison with anyone else.

Matthew:  For me, when people say, is it Christian or Jewish? I would say it's neither of those things. It is God. It is religion. It is God.  I don't think to label it Christian, or it certainly wouldn't be Jewish, because it predates Judaism, and it wouldn't be Christian because it predates Christianity, technically. But, it would be religion, it would be a group of people who have set practices, worshipping the same God that I worship, i.e. Jesus Christ. Which is why, I would gather, there are differences in the way they worship Christ, [and] the way I worship Christ. Because a lot of the things [the way] I worship Christ are based upon modern revelation, the Doctrine and Covenants, the Book of Mormon. They wouldn't have had those things. So, their way of worshipping Christ would have been different to the way I worship Christ. But, it wouldn't have been totally alien to me, because it's worshipping Christ.

GT:  Are there like prophecies about Christ or anything like that?

Matthew:  They talk of Christ a lot in the record. Jeraneck, the last prophet, in the Book of Jeraneck, he sees a vision of the birth of Christ.

GT:  Just like Nephi.

Matthew:  Yeah, yeah, I suppose. But you're later than that. Yeah, it's just like Nephi, he sees where he will be born, how he will be born, how he will die, which confuses him a little in the record, because he doesn't realize, he doesn't understand how people can kill a god. But, anyway, that's beside the point. He sees the way he dies. He sees that he's resurrected. He knows what's going to happen. Also, one of the good things about the Book of Jeraneck, for me, is we know one of the wise men there at the birth of Christ.

GT:  Who is?

Matthew:  So it was one, his name is Sheraneck, and he's still knocking around. He hasn't tasted death. He's still here, though, and he was told that he would bring a gift to the birth side,  or the cradle of Christ. I happen to believe that there are many, many wise men that went to see Jesus, including the Nephites. So, they prophesy of Christ, they teach of Christ, they worship Christ. They talk about him all the time. Then, of course, skipping forward to the book of Rayaneck...

GT: So, these are pre-Jewish Christians.

Matthew:  Right, yes. Some of the things that they do that we will recognize, I mean, I don't know. Baptism, probably, is probably the most important one, I would think.  We know they baptized in the Book of Jeraneck, because baptisms take place. They weren't, like taking the sacrament, but they weren't offering sacrifice, either. So, there are certain things that you and I would recognize as being, "Christian practices," such as...

GT:  The sacrament?

Matthew:  No, no. That's definitely not instituted amongst them at that time, no. This would probably make sense as Christ hasn't been born yet. So, no sacrament.

Matthew Gill claims to have translated an ancient record of the people of Stonehenge.  We’ll learn more about them.  Are they related to Book of Mormon peoples?

https://youtu.be/fsc1-YFGedE

Jaredites & Book of Jeraneck

Matthew:  The plates were written by a prophet called Jeraneck. Okay? Jeraneck was the last prophet of the people before they were destroyed. So, before he died, he completed the record, the history, the religious practices, and he gave his set of records to an angel to keep safe, because he knew he was going to die. He didn't want these plates to fall into the wrong hands. So, he gave them to an angel to come forward through his son, when it was ready. So, the first prophet of the Book of Jeraneck is a man called Araneck. He came from the Plains of Shinar, which is in the Middle East, like Iraq, Babylon area. The timeline of the Book of Jeraneck spans roughly give or take 100 years, the timeline of the Jaredites. We learn from the Book of Jeraneck that the Jaredites were known to the people of the Book of Jeraneck, and they traveled with each other for a short period of time. The brother of Jared’s people went one way, and Araneck's people went another way.

GT:  Was this when they were in the ocean, the plates, like...

Matthew:  On land. This is the Tower of Babel. They didn't have their language confounded. So, they were speaking the first language or the first...

GT: So, they migrated from, basically, modern day Iraq to the British Isles.

Matthew:  Yeah. So, basically, the journey the journey they take from Iraq, modern day Iraq, is northeast. So, they went through what today is known as the Caucasus Mountain region.

GT: Which is in Russia.

Matthew:  Yes, sort of part of Russia, so they'd be going through, like Georgia.  They went through there and then up into southern Russia. When they were into the southern Russian area, they split off into two peoples. So, the Prophet Araneck had a number of sons, and his eldest son was called Lioneck. He rebelled and took 2000 people with him into Russia. The other two sons, who were called to be prophets over the people, went west and all the way right to France, to Brittany. Then, they built ships from Brittain, and sailed out into the Bay of Biscay, around the little nub of France into the English Channel, and then made landfall in southern England.

GT:  And the Jaredites continued on to America?

Matthew:  Yeah, they continued to America, yeah, whatever.

GT:  These were the same ships, like tight unto a dish?

Matthew:  No, the ships that that Jeraneck people built were more like Phoenician ships.  They didn't need to be tight, because they weren't going--well, I believe the Jaredites made an Atlantic crossing, not a Pacific crossing. So, they weren't going out into the rough seas. I mean, they weren't going out into the ocean.  They were going into the Bay of Biscay around and up. I mean, if anyone knows that kind of geography, I mean, it is rough water, but it's not like the Atlantic Ocean. So, they didn't need to be as tight as a dish. They certainly weren't going under the water at any point. They just needed to be big enough and tight enough to make that short voyage from the Carnac region in France to southern England. And that's the route they took, they went from Carnac, out to the ocean, up to southern England, made landfall and went up the Avon tributary to what today is the Stonehenge Valley. And they settled there. They eventually built a temple, which is the remains of what we see at Stonehenge, and they build lots of other things around about that area. Then, eventually, this is cutting the story very short. But eventually, they migrate north, then they run into a brand-new group of people who they didn't know of.

Matthew Gill is prophet of the Restored Branch of Jesus Christ, based in the UK.  We’ll learn about his growing up in the LDS Church, his visions, and translating plates of an ancient record of an ancient people in the British Isles.

https://youtu.be/Pt4-L7rHuA4

Leaving LDS Church

GT:  What led you to leave the LDS Church?

Matthew:  My first vision as an adult happened in October of 2005. I was still in the Church at that point. I'm quite happy to stay in the Church. I mean, I held callings. I think I was, at that time, in the Melchizedek priesthood presidency at the time. So, I was happy. I mean, I have friends there and built relationships with people and my family. I'm a third generation LDS. Well, I was.  So, you know, it was just like, with my parents, all I knew was LDS Church. All I knew was the LDS story. I didn't really know anything else other than the LDS story. I certainly wasn't aware of all the different organizations within the restoration family. The only one I was really aware of with the RLDS, and we didn't really talk about them very much. Then, I had this. I went to bed that night, and I prayed, and my prayer was more, "Just direct me.  What did my family need to do? You've been you've been telling me since I was 12, this thing is going to come? Is it ever going to come? What's it all about?" Then, that night, I have a vision, and I see an angel and the angel says to me, "You're going to be given this gift. This gift is going to come to you.  You need to prepare." My first questions were, at the time, "What do you mean by prepare? What do I need to do?" The angel told me some scriptures to read, where to read the scripture from.

GT:  These were LDS scriptures or Bible scriptures?  What was the name of the angel?

Matthew:  The angel was called the Angel Raphael.

GT:  Okay.

Matthew:  He directed me.  At the time, I only had LDS scriptures. I didn't have anything else to have. But he was talking to me about scriptures that I didn't have. I'd never really studied the Inspired Version of the Bible. But he was talking about the real Bible. "This is one you need to read."  I'm like, "Where do I get a copy of this and how do I go about it."  He gave me a list of things to do. I went away and researched them and read them. I read, I was told to read, in particular, to go through second Nephi properly.  I did that. Then, of course, when you start to do what you're being told to do by an angelic messenger, certain things start to happen in your life, don't they? Because then all of a sudden, you're doing things that are contrary to what you've been told at Church, which is exactly what happened. Exactly what happened. I remember one-- and while these were going on, I was still a member I hadn't left yet. This is 2005.

Matthew:  So I was going to Church with my wife, and my son, he was about two, and my parents.  I was just sitting in a sacrament meeting. I can't tell you when the date was. But I remember the actual, the instant, I was sitting in a sacrament meeting, and they were blessing the sacrament. I read the Doctrine and Covenants section on the preparing of the sacrament, and who is to give the sacrament, and who is to... I was reading this. For me, anyway, I looked at what we were doing, looked to what the scripture said, I was like, "This doesn't make any sense. We're not doing what the Scriptures, even our own scriptures attested." I just felt this overwhelming feeling to get out of that room and get out of there. So, I did.  I got up and left and went into the corridor.  My dad came out, "What's the matter?  Becky's upset, because she doesn't know what's going on." That's my wife.  I said, "I can't stay. I've just got to get out. I can't stay here anymore." And I never went back. I decided that night to write  my resignation letter.

I’m excited to introduce Matthew Gill. He’s a prophet in the UK for the Restored Branch of Jesus Christ. We’ll learn more about his scriptures.  He’s translated a record of ancient peoples in Britain!

https://youtu.be/V0oLB4qxwus

Intro

Matthew:  Sure. My name is Matthew Gill and I am the Prophet and first elder of the Restored Branch of Jesus Christ based in Derbyshire, England.

...

Matthew:  The official name of the organization is the Restored Branch of Jesus Christ.

...

Matthew:  I mean, if you want to go right back to the beginning, when I was in the LDS Church, I had a spiritual experience when I was about 12, in 1990, where I saw an angel. I saw Moroni, and the gold plates. My father and I went, and we told the bishop and we told the stake president, so we were told pretty much to keep it to ourselves. Don't tell anybody. Don't bandy it about. So, I grew up, just having that experience on my mind.

Matthew:  Then, obviously, with that experience in mind, you go through phases, and I went to my mission, and I came home. I didn't really think much about the visitation when I was 12, other than the fact that he told me that one day I would have some work to do and that I was to prepare for that by being spiritually prepared, read the scriptures, behave myself, don't do anything silly.

Matthew:  Then, about October 2005, I had another angelic encounter. That's when I started to part ways with the LDS Church. But I wasn't kicked out. I resigned my membership quite freely.  I sent a letter in, resigned my membership. I never went through any excommunication or disciplinary council. I just ended my membership.

GT:  Okay.  So, can you tell us more about these visions? Because I understand that, did you receive some gold plates or something? Or is that something different?

Brass Plates of Stonehenge

Matthew:  No, so, in 2005, I had an angelic visitation. In that visitation, I was told that there was going to come to me a record of the people, the former inhabitants of the British Isles.  There were certain things I needed to do in order to receive them.  That was the way it was. I'd had, and then I had visitations on and off. Then, in 2006, I had a dream where I went to Stonehenge, and I was called to Stonehenge. So, my father and I went down to Stonehenge with a friend of ours and we had this wonderful experience at Stonehenge.  We all had our own individual experiences, which culminated in the one big experience, which told us we were going to be given a record of these former inhabitants of the British Isles. And they will be with us in the coming weeks and months ahead.

Matthew:  So, obviously, we weren't going to church at that point, because we'd all left the LDS Church, including my father and my mother. So, we'd all left the church and my friend had left the church. So, we weren't meeting formally to have church or take the sacrament or anything like that.

Matthew:  Then, in I want to say, August, it was the August of 2006, my wife and I, we stopped over at my parents’ house, and we stayed the night. We were going to go home the next day on Saturday.  My wife was obviously up early with getting my son ready to go home.  I heard my dad calling me from downstairs, "Matthew, Matthew, come downstairs, something's here."

Matthew:  My first reaction was, "What's all the ruckus about?" Let's get down to find out, you know.  So, I went downstairs, and I saw my father holding a little wooden box.  I would probably say it's about, that it was about the average size of a big Bible. So yay, big.  My dad took the box into his dining room, and my wife said to me, "I think you better go with him and have a look, see what this is all about." So, I went into the dining room, and we said a prayer first. Then, started to unload the box.

We have a meet and greet today at 6pm. If you're in the area, I'd love to meet you. Sorry for late notice!

https://youtu.be/HKZGsF8cHc8

 

Joseph Smith spent about six months in Liberty Jail following the Mormon-Missouri War of 1838. Historian Steve LeSueur talks more about the court hearings, and Joseph’s escape from jail, (or was he let go by the sheriff?)

https://youtu.be/mrcOvP57GLk

Liberty Jail Hearing

Steve:  Yes, and it appears that he was let go by the sheriff. So, he's in jail.  At the Richmond preliminary hearing, he and about 63 Mormons, I think it is, were tried for various crimes allegedly committed during the war.  Here, again, is an example of, well, in a conflict like this: there’s winners and losers. Whoever wins puts the losers on trial for the crimes that were committed.  In this case, the Mormons lost, so they were put on [trial.]  It was thought [that] they were the aggressors. They're put on trial and Joseph and some others are put in jail for treason.

Steve:  Now, let me mention here, that the Richmond court of inquiry occurred after Lucas finally surrenders the prisoners. He doesn't kill them. Boggs is adamant that, "Hey, turn them over to the civil authorities if they committed crimes." So, it's called the Richmond court of inquiry. For much of our Mormon history, we have derided this as a mock trial, a mock hearing, where the Mormons weren't allowed to bring defense witnesses, and the people who testified, all lied, either on purpose, or they were Missourians who lied or dissenters who lied because they were bitter, or Mormons who were forced at the point of bayonet to lie. What they lied about was that there was burning and plundering etc. This was a mock trial.

Steve:  Well, this was not a trial. It was a preliminary hearing. The purpose of a preliminary hearing is just to see if there's probable cause to believe that the defendants may have committed the crimes. And if so, then you bind them over for an actual trial. So, that's all this was. So, there was plenty of evidence, people testifying that, "Yes, I saw Joseph do this. Yes, I saw Joseph do that, " or "Yes, I saw this person at the Battle of Crooked River." So, that was sufficient to say, okay for example, if you were at the Battle of Crooked River, one of the soldiers, then you were part of this group that murdered a state militiaman.

Steve:  Likewise, if you were at Gallatin while the town was being burned and plundered, or I saw you there, that's enough. The Mormons' defense, if they were to mount a defense, would have been something to the effect of, "Yes, I was there. I was protecting myself. Yes, I did this. It was because I was being attacked." Or "We thought we were going to be attacked."  So, these are legitimate defenses. But, you don't put on that defense at a preliminary hearing. Because, in fact, if you were to say that at a preliminary hearing, the judge would say, "Okay, so you were there and you did shoot," or, "you did do," whatever. That's up for a jury to figure out whether you were justified or not? The Mormons did actually bring seven people who testified, and they testified to very specific things like, "No, he didn't have a clock," or "I heard Sampson Avard say he would lie."

Joseph's Escape?

Steve:  They [the ones charged with treason] were not allowed to post bail. And those who were involved in the Crooked River Battle, were not allowed to post bail, because there was a murder involved. So, that's why Joseph was in Liberty Jail, was because of the testimony of him saying that he was prepared to march against the state. He didn't care if state troops all came against him, that all the militia was a mob, etc. This was interpreted as possible treason. So, he goes to Liberty Jail, then he and his fellow prisoners are taken up to Gallatin for a trial, a grand jury hearing, essentially, again, more just like a preliminary hearing, and they get a change of venue to a different county. So, it was while they were being transferred that the sheriff in Daviess, apparently,

The darkest chapter in Mormon-Missouri history occurred when 17 Mormon men and boys were killed at the Hawn’s Mill Massacre. Hostilities between Mormons and Missouri state militia led Joseph to surrender, and he was actually sentenced to death during a court-martial.  Historian Steve LeSueur tells us more.

https://youtu.be/RApD2ZSdliw

Hawn's Mill Massacre

GT:  Can you just give just a brief description of what happened to Hawn's Mill?

Steve:  The Mormons had a settlement there, and it was on the eastern border of Caldwell County, near Livingston County. So, there were some fears both by the Livingston County citizens and the Mormons at Hawn's Mill, of an attack by the other.  Apparently, they had signed a truce of, "We won't attack each other." The situation was such that the Livingston County people, they were fearful, but they were obviously overly aggressive.  Then, they were also supplemented by citizens from Daviess County, who had been driven out. So, some of the attackers on Hawn's Mill, were men from Daviess County, who probably were looking for some revenge.  So, you had that going as well.  Again, we don't know. They never said, "No, we're looking for revenge," but, I think it's a reasonable supposition.  At this point in time, and I think you and Alex talked about this was, Joseph Smith was calling for the Mormons in the outlying settlements to come into the main town. So, in Caldwell, come to Far West, where you'll be safe. In Daviess County, they called for them to come into Adam-ondi-Ahman, where you'll be safe, where we have more people. Jacob Hawn came into Far West, and he talked to, I think Captain Killian, and then, Joseph.  He really didn't get the answer he wanted, which was, "We should stay."

GT:  Stay put.

Steve:  But, now I'm going by memory, Joseph just said some effect of "Well, you do what you want, but I'm telling you to stay here.” Then, he went back, Jacob Hawn. According to one account, I read [that] one of the men from Hawn's Mill, said, "He came back, and told us Joseph said we could come back. But the way Hawn portrayed the message, it was as if, "You can come back, but you would be cowards to do so," and so they stayed, and this is just one person.

GT:  It's a sad thing.

Steve:  Yeah, yeah. The Livingston troops, of course, they had no reason to attack. I mean, there was no threat from that village at all, and [the vigilantes] pretty much wiped them out: 17 killed and quite a number wounded as well. Seriously.

GT:  Yeah, it's a really sad story, in Mormon history.

Steve:  For a long time, it was believed, or it was asserted by Mormons that they [the attackers] were just responding to the Extermination Order. But the order had not reached there, and they never gave that reason for doing that. Those who did speak about it argued that, "We thought the Mormons were going to attack us and so we attacked them first." Whether they really believed that or not, again, we don't have any contrary evidence, but we do know, they certainly had no reason to attack. They had no [reason. The Mormons attacking them] wasn't going to occur. But maybe they were persuaded by the Daviess citizens or other events.

GT:  Do we have any reaction by Boggs to the Hawn's Mill Massacre?

Steve:  You know, that's a good question. Not that I recall, but I won't say no. When somebody visited him, a Mormon, with some petitions, Boggs did express a lot of concern about the conditions of the Mormons, but I think this was in Far West. Also, the Mormon who recounted this didn't really believe Boggs. He thought it was more of crocodile tears.

Joseph's Surrender

Steve:  So, after Joseph comes back to Far West, and there's the Crooked River Battle and the Extermination Order, and the troops come out. Several men, Reed Peck,

Apostle David Patten was the first LDS martyr, killed in the Battle of Crooked River trying to rescue LDS hostages from a Missouri militia. Exaggerated reports that Mormons had wiped out an entire Missouri militia were not true but caused Missouri Governor Lilburn Boggs to issue the Extermination Order which said that Mormons must be treated as enemies and driven from the state. Historian Steve LeSueur gives more details about these events.

https://youtu.be/8ZImlw75GMk

Battle of Crooked River

Steve:  While Bogart, who's really kind of an unprincipled man, he goes beyond his orders and he goes into Caldwell County, as well, and threatens the Mormons there and disarms the Mormons in the southern part of Caldwell County. He captures two of the spies. He knows they're spies, and he captures them. He captures a third man at the house where they're staying, and he takes them and there's some threats of, "Let's put these guys to death."  So, other spies who watched this happen, ride back to Far West. and say, "All right, they've just taken three prisoners and they're threatening to kill them."  So, that's when David W. Patten raises his force of men. They ride down to Crooked River, where Bogart is camped. You have the Battle of Crooked River on October 25. Again, the Mormons are going down there to free the prisoners.  They're not going down to attack Richmond. They're going down to free the prisoners.

Steve:  Meanwhile, the evidence from the prisoners is, "Ah, they're probably going to be let us go."  This is afterwards, but the Mormons didn't know that. Again, Bogart was not a very principled man. So, the Mormons attack Bogart’s troops at Crooked River to free the three hostages. Three Mormons are killed, one Missourian is killed, but the Mormons drive the Missourians from the ground. The Missourians think they're wiped out.  They scatter. As they're reporting what happens, it's like, "I'm the only guy who survived." But the thing is, that's what the Mormons thought, too. When you read the accounts of Hosea Stout, and some others, they also thought they just wiped these guys out.

GT:  And nobody died. Well, you said one died.

Steve:  One died, and there were several injured.

GT:  Isn't this an issue? Was this kind of a ruse to pull the Mormons out? It sounds like you [and Alex disagree.] It seems like, if I remember right, Alex Baugh said that the Missourians had these three Mormon prisoners, and they wanted to draw the Mormons out.

Steve:  They were baiting them?

GT:  Yes.

Steve:  I don’t think so. No, I think, based on the reports they had, that the were truly afraid of an attack by the Mormons. After all, the Mormons had attacked Daviess County. They had heard from Marsh and Hyde, among other dissenters, that the Mormons had violent, aggressive, intentions.  They thought they were just defending against them. They took the spies. They had heard about the spy company. They weren’t supposed to be there, the spies. They had bad intentions. So, yeah, I think they were just operating under their own assumptions of what the Mormons' intentions were.

GT:  So, you’re saying the Missourians, they have these three spies, and then they were just trying to defend the border?

Steve:  Yes, yeah. Just to be clear, I think two of them were spies. The third person was at the house where the spies were, and so for whatever reason, they took him as a prisoner, as well.

GT:  Okay. Then David Patten attacks and ends up dying in the attack.

Steve:  That’s right. Then, these guys scatter, that is, Bogart's company.

GT:  But, the Mormon prisoners are rescued, right?

Steve:  Yes. In fact, when the Mormons showed up, Bogart put the men on the front line, apparently, so they'd be shot first, if shooting occurred.