Welcome to a special live episode of Holding up the Ladder in collaboration with The Royal College of Art. feat. Gülce Tulçalı and Phoebe Davies.

As part of the Royal College of Art (RCA) MA graduate students', 'Curating Contemporary Art Exhibition' and their curatorial show, Feed Back, I was invited to lead a discussion exploring remediating legacies, curatorial repair and the role of artistic practice in defining and potentially shaping new legacies. 

Our conversation took place in the Hanger space at the RCA, an open concrete and brick exhibition space with numerous MA students assembling their curatorial shows. So during our conversation expect to hear the hive like activity of a space in preparation.

The curatorial team responsible for Feed Back were: Apoorva Subbanna, Yi Fan, Serena Gao, Francesca Inciong, Stephanie Rubio, Arina Baburskova and Indy Calland

In conversation were artists: Gülce Tulçalı & Phoebe Davies

We talk about dystopian realities, about the body, about making, about the artist’s role responding to the world around us. We talk about tenant farming and about collectivity and the commons.

Gülce Tulçalı Bio

Phoebe Davies Bio

Links

Now, The Invisible Committee

Octavia's Brood

Vandana Shiva, Reclaiming The Commons

Slade Farm Organics & Podcast

Title: It's Your Job to Make the Work - A Holding Up The Ladder production in collaboration with RCA feat. Gülce Tulçalı and Phoebe Davies

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I can’t think of a better way to end season 4 and the never before heard conversations from my archive, than my conversation between friends, Zadie Smith and Devonté Hynes. I’d been badgering Zadie for a while to let me interview her and when she agreed, the day before our conversation was scheduled, she emailed to ask if she could bring her friend Dev? I of course said yes, scrambled to find another microphone and when we had a last minute cancellation of the recording venue, we had to do it at my house. And the room with the best soundproofing, my bedroom!

We talk about how we’re all storytellers; about music; about the power of live music; about the myth of the 10,000 hours; about Prince; about whether we should define ourselves as 'artists'; about authenticity and consciousness; about knowing and unknowing and about being students forever. I’ve produced almost 60 podcast episodes and this is one of my favourites. Because, for me, there is nothing more fulfilling than sitting around with creative people talking about music and making and process - it’s why this podcast exists. I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

Guests: Zadie Smith & Devonté Hynes

Title: I would never call myself an artist

Music: Lil Nas X, Industry Baby; Arctic Monkeys, There'd Better Be a Mirrorball; Maggie Rogers, That's Where I Am; Knucks, Alpha House

Links

Devonté Hynes IG and Website

Zadie Smith Website

Zadie interview on latest book, The Fraud - BBC Sounds, This Cultural Life

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Welcome to part 2 of I've been thinking about...friendship. I talk about the importance of friendship and how pivotal it's been in my creative practice.

Holding up the Ladder links:

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Welcome back to part 2 of my conversation with Francis Fuster. We pick up our conversation in London in the 1980's. Francis is playing percussion for Hugh Masekela, he's touring with Paul Simon and that huge record, Graceland. We talk about playing in South Africa post apartheid and a short stint in jail - it was self-defense!

Guest: Francis Fuster

Title: You gotta be ready

Music: Bach, Handel, Miles Davis and John Coltrane

Music links

Hugh Masekela, Sekunjalo

Geraldo Pino and the Heartbeats, Maria Lef for Waka

Hugh Masekela, Don't go lose it baby

Hugh Masekela, Bring Him Back Home (Nelson Mandela)

Francis Fuster, Najesueh

Other links

Shango-Ja Martial Arts Academy

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You’re in for a treat today! And a little interruption from conversations from my archive. I recently did a gig at London’s Jazz Cafe playing keys and singing for a special concert in honour of South Africa Freedom Day and the late great South African trumpeter, Hugh Masekela. The person leading the band was his percussionist and friend of nearly 50 years, Francis Fuster.

Born in Sierra Leone to a Liberian mother and Swiss father. Now 81 (but looks more like a man in his 60's!) a 7th Dan black belt in karate, upright and sharp as a tack. We talk about his journey from dancing, to drumming, to teaching, to percussion. About being a member of the band described as the Beatles of Africa, Gerald Pino and The Heartbeats.

We talk about his close friendship with icon and disruptor musician Fela Kuti, also the reason he started learning karate. How he went from Sierra Leone to Liberia, to Ivory Coast, to Ghana, to Nigeria, ending up in New York and the wildness of that period. We talk about playing with Paul Simon and the huge record that was Graceland. And his close professional and personal relationship with Hugh Masekela.

This was a joyous interview (what was meant to be an hour long conversation, was closer to 2!) So it's divided into 2 parts.

Guest: Francis Fuster

Title: You gotta be ready

Music: Bach, Handel, Miles Davis and John Coltrane

Music links

Geraldo Pino and the Heartbeats, Maria Lef for Waka

Hugh Masekela, Don't go lose it baby

Hugh Masekela, Bring Him Back Home (Nelson Mandela)

Francis Fuster, Najesueh

Other links

Shango-Ja Martial Arts Academy

Find out ways to support the Israel-Palestine project click here

Podcast Website

Podcast IG

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Today's episode of 'I've been thinking about' is a 2-parter and it's all about friendship and how it has impacted my practice. We talk about how much our families impact our lives, but not so much our friendships. Yet since we choose our friendships they are deeply significant - I explore why.

Holding up the Ladder links:

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Welcome back to the 2nd part of my conversation with Rich Harless. We caught up last month, and kick off our convo talking about how NFTs are no longer the hot topic, but the shift is to AI. And for context, the 2 artists Rich refers to are Sam Ryder who was runner up on the Eurovision song contest and Marc Rebillet who performs in the street.

And if you haven't done so already, I recommend listening to Part 1 to get a full picture.

Guest: Rich Harless

Title: It’s like skywriting in a hurricane

Music: Depeche Mode, David Bowie, Purple Disco Machine

Links:

Rich Harless on Linkedin

Feather agency

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In this week's episode we’re talking tech, marketing, AI and the music industry with entrepreneur, Rich Harless.

Rich Harless is a Berlin-based, US-born entrepreneur and the founder of Feather, a company pioneering AI-powered brand measurement for digital advertisers. Prior to launching Feather, Rich held leadership roles at leading music and media companies such as AOL, Shazam, and Digitalstage.io, where he collaborated with some of the world’s largest streaming platforms, record labels, and a diverse range of independent artists. With over two decades of experience across digital advertising, emerging technology, and the creative industries, Rich has worked at the intersection of AI, blockchain, and augmented reality, helping brands and media platforms navigate technological shifts.

We talk about old vs. new music; the disconnect between art and business; about streaming platforms. The role of social media for independent artists, as Rich says it’s good for discovery but not for monetisation.

And because this is a never before heard conversation from my archive and the tech space changes so rapidly, Rich very kindly came back on the pod to chat with me about what he’s up to now and the latest changes in the tech space. For example, the first time we spoke it was centred around web 3 and NFTs and now the focus has shifted to AI. I decided to keep it in, because Rich explains things so clearly it helps provide a kind of technological arc, so to speak, to understand where things are at now. So this is a 2-parter. Tune in next week Wednesday to hear the follow-up conversation we had just last month.

Guest: Rich Harless

Title: It’s like skywriting in a hurricane

Music: Depeche Mode, David Bowie, Purple Disco Machine

Links:

Rich Harless on Linkedin

Feather agency

Ted Gioia - Is Old Music Killing New Music?

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What makes an artist great, how does an artist become great? In today's episode of I've been thinking about, I explore the idea of maturity, ageing and process.

It seems to me that maturity, ageing in the Arts is actually beneficial. Unlike other professions where ageing is synonymous with decline, with cognitive or physical impairment - people in sports have an early retirement age for that reason, Or former US president Biden wasn’t he forced to step down because of his cognitive decline due to his age? That doesn’t seem to apply to artists. When it comes to the Arts, age and maturity actually have the opposite effect - we can keep getting better. 

And there are many examples of this: Irish writer Edna O’Brien lived to 93. French writer Annie Ernaux now 84, won the Nobel prize for literature at the age of 82. Classical pianists only seem to get better with age, they have all the technique of years of practice without the need for showmanship that you sometimes see in younger pianists. I think about artists like Sonia Boyce who represented Britain at the Venice Biennale in her 60s or figurative painter Claudette Johnson also in her 60s. What about American abstract painter Stanley Whitney still making beautiful work at 79 or Indian artist, Arpita Singh. Now 87, I recently went to her solo exhibition at London’s Serpentine and her work took my breath away, her use of colour and composition, I felt like I was seeing an entirely new interpretation of artistic expression.

I mean as long as you can pick up a paintbrush or pencil, or a camera, the work doesn’t and shouldn’t stop. And I’m not saying that we have to wait until we’re in our 80s to produce works that’s meaningful. I’m saying that our process produces the sound and the deeper the process the richer the sound. 

Music Refs:

Ray LaMontagne, Jolene

Joni Mitchell, Both Sides Now from 1969

Joni Mitchell, Both Sides Now from 2000 

Holding up the Ladder links:

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In the latest never before heard conversation from my archive, we're talking about America. You may be feeling over saturated with America at the moment as the loudest, brashest voice in the geopolitical room. I know I definitely feel like that these days, especially given everything that’s going on all over the world. But I want to promise you that you’re in for a refreshing, insightful, through-provoking treat with my guest today, Carri Twigg.

Carri Twigg is the co-founder and head of development for Culture House media, a Black, Brown, women-owned, premium film and TV production company that specialises in storytelling about the cultural questions that shape society, politics, and identity. They’re responsible for series including Netflix Top Ten series, Ladies First: A story of Women in Hip Hop, The Hair Tales for Hulu and OWN and Growing Up for Disney+.

Before her pivot to entertainment, Carri served in the Obama White House as Special Assistant to the President and Director of Public Engagement for then Vice President Biden. Carri spent over 10 years working at every level of American politics and government. And in 2022, was appointed by then President Biden to the President’s Advisory Committee on the Arts and the Kennedy Center board.

We talk about growing up in Ohio with mixed heritage, the relationship between culture and politics. We talk about self-censorship, should we for example keep content in films that are racist is it harmful and if so why?

I have to say this is the best exegesis of what I’d call ‘Americanness’ I’ve ever heard and really contextualises the kind of ‘soup’ that is US politics and culture. Carri now has a politics and culture podcast with Brad Jenkins called Twigg & Jenkins, a continuation of her engagement in US politics. She's also written a fantastic piece for Rolling Stone magazine about what she describes as ‘Trump’s cultural capture', very much reasserting much of our conversation.

Guest: Carri Twigg

Title: Sometimes culture really pushes politics and sometimes politics pushes culture’

Music: Amanda Jones, Rodney Chrome, Meshell Ndegeocello - The Hair Tales

Yussef Dayes & Tom Misch, What Kinda Music

Links

Culture House ; IG & Substack

Carri Twigg IG

Twigg & Jenkins podcast website

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Podcast Website

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