Many people say Thanksgiving is their favorite holiday: No cards to be sent. No presents to be purchased. A pause with family and close friends before the year-end holiday rush. 

Thanksgiving is about gratitude, but it can also be a time of anxiety, and even dread. What do you say to family members, friends and neighbors who vote for a candidate or political party you despise? How do you react when they launch into a rant or say something that you find offensive? We share tips about how to disagree better with those you love.

Our guest is Braver Angels National Advisor Mónica Guzmán, author of the book “I Never Thought of It That Way: How to Have Fearlessly Curious Conversations in Dangerously Divided Times”. Móni is the liberal leaning, loving daughter of conservative parents. She’s had a lot of personal experience of connecting with people not like her. We hear several examples in this episode.

Despite rigid political polarization among elites, everyday Americans may have much more in common than many of us believe. A new Gallup poll finds that more than four-in-five adults endorse compromise and reject political violence. Research for More In Common and other groups found that people have a distorted understanding of those on the other side of the political aisle.

One-on-one and in-person conversations are the best way for us to overcome polarization in our personal lives, says Mónica. "The only context where we have our full arsenal of communication tools available is the in-person conversation."

In our interview, Móni also shares valuable tips about how to listen with curiosity, lean into disagreements and turn them away from awkwardness and misunderstandings.

Learn more about how to have better conversations with friends and loved ones who see the world differently than you do here at the Braver Angels website. 

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Just over three months into his new role as leader of Braver Angels, we hear from CEO Maury Giles about his hopes, plans and goals for America's largest volunteer-led movement working to bridge partisan divides and disagree better for the common good.

America has lost much of its civic muscle, and it's time to get it back, Maury tells our host, Richard Davies. 

Rising polarization, declining trust in public institutions and the media, the spread of misinformation, the longest-ever government shutdown, and recent political violence are all signs that something is deeply wrong with our public square.

"We're trying to help people understand first and foremost that the choice you have to make is that of personal agency: To say am I going to act or react?,” Maury says.

"In this country we all have the ability to express a point of view and to try to work to solve things, and we don't have to rely on our elected officials to do that. But we’ve lost sight of our civic muscle.”

Maury Giles came to Braver Angels after a career in journalism, politics, market research, communications strategy, experience design, and business development. Richard asked him about the challenges and opportunities he faces as a bridge builder at a difficult time.

We hear about the case for citizen-led solutions, and why the true remedy to our civic challenges isn’t reaction, but action, with neighbors working with their neighbors across divisions and mistrust. 

Over the past sixteen months, “How Do We Fix It?” has published more than twenty episodes about the people, projects and ideas of Braver Angels. Find them at our website. Like and subscribe to our shows on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more about Maury’s work and Braver Angels’ mission here.

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Liberals and conservatives are caught in a politically toxic feedback loop. Our guest, Zachary Elwood, argues that when people express contempt for those on the other side, they contribute to a cycle of conflict that weakens our nation.

Increasingly, Americans view polarization as a worsening crisis. Two-thirds say the political system is too divided to solve the nation’s problems. A New York Times - Siena University poll found that many more people now believe the system is broken compared with five years ago.

Elwood explains that Americans don't just disagree on issues. We increasingly view our political adversaries as immoral, deluded, and dangerous. Our fear and contempt affect our stances on issues, making us more hardened in our views and less willing to compromise. 

Zachary Elwood is the author of two books on toxic polarization. The first was “Defusing American Anger”. On this podcast we hear all about his latest: “How Contempt Destroys Democracy”. The new book is written by a left-leaning author for members of his own side, who mostly believe that President Trump is a threat to democracy.

We discuss evidence that liberal disdain for conservatives and misconceptions about what they actually believe have increased support for Trump by right-leaning voters.

“I think it’s very important to separate leaders from people that vote for them,” Elwood tells How Do We Fix It? “My views of Trump have not changed. How I speak and think about people who voted for him have changed a lot.”

Toxic polarization means we see political opponents as part of a monolithic movement. “We end up seeing the entire other side as boiling down to the most extreme people on that side… and pointing out the worst antisocial and rude behaviors,” he says. 

In this episode we discuss the work of More In Common and other groups that explore our misconceptions about political adversaries. We learn why it’s productive yet very difficult to criticize your own political tribe. We find out more about Braver Angels’ creative work to depolarize America.

Elwood mentions several authors who help him understand the true nature of political polarization:

Erica Etelson - “Beyond Contempt: How Liberals Can Communicate Across the Great Divide”.

Taylor Dotson - “The Divide”.

Robert Tallise - “Sustaining Democracy”.

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“Our political leaders— left, right, and center— have a thin view of citizenship,” says Braver Angels co-founder Bill Doherty. He argues that everything from healthcare and education to public safety and politics “is the work of we the people. That’s the robust idea of citizenship…Ultimately the big problems are those of all of us”

This episode features an interview recorded for “Derate The Hate”, a podcast hosted by Wilk Wilkinson in collaboration with Braver Angels, the nationwide movement that brings citizens together across political divides, and pushes back against grievance, outrage and toxic polarization.

As Wilk writes in his show notes about this interview: “This is not about partisan politics—it’s about restoring a sense of shared responsibility in our communities through intentional dialogue and real problem-solving.”

Bill and Wilk discuss a new definition of citizenship and other topics, including how structured conversations can transform toxic divides, and why personal accountability is essential in civic life.

Bill Doherty is co-founder of Braver Angels, professor at the University of Minnesota, and a nationally recognized expert in family therapy and civic healing. He is Director of the Minnesota Couples on the Brink Project at the University's Department of Family Social Science. 

Wilk Wilkinson is the new Director of Media Systems and Operations at Braver Angels. He plays a pivotal role in shaping national dialogue through conversations, storytelling and strategic media. His podcast, Derate The Hate, complements this mission by offering practical tools and conversations that inspire personal growth and civil engagement.

“How Do We Fix It?” asks questions about critical solutions in public life. We report on the people, projects and ideas of Braver Angels. Our show is hosted by former ABC New Correspondent, podcast consultant and media coach, Richard Davies. Our producer, editor and sound designer is Miranda Shafer.

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Americans are divided by geography. Most of us live in overwhelmingly red or blue Congressional Districts. We are less likely than ever to know someone from the other side of the political spectrum. We are often misinformed about what members of the other tribe actually believe. 

In this episode we speak with Kirk Tatnall, Starla Brown, and Cade Smith about a Braver Angels exchange program. Participants from New York City and Jackson, Mississippi visited each other over two weekends. They held workshops and meetings, engaging in discussions across differences.

“I just have a fundamental underlying belief that you cannot understand someone else unless you know them,” Kirk Tatnall told us. “You cannot really get to the motivations and the passions and the drive of other people until you see how they live.”

The exchange began with the idea that only by coming together physically - in each other's backyards - can we begin to understand the other side.

“We got to know each other, and we were allowed to be vulnerable in a very safe, wonderful environment,” said Starla Brown. “Being able to be vulnerable with people who don’t agree with you is empowering.”

Exchange participants learned about two very different parts of the country, and engaged with people not like them. “It’s not just speaking. It’s being open to seeing someone in a completely new light, and if you do you can never see them the old way,” Cade Smith told “How Do We Fix It?”

This podcast is our latest to report on the people, projects, and ideas of Braver Angels, who aim to restore the American spirit of working together.

Our guests:

Starla Brown is the current State Director for Americans for Prosperity's Mississippi Chapter. Starla is a 5th generation Mississippian and spent a portion of her life in South Florida where she worked in the construction industry and marketing development, as well as with the Florida chapter of AFP.  

Kirk Tatnall has been a New Yorker for most of his adult life. His career in advertising has spanned the digital marketing era and he continues to focus his time at the crossroads of media, data and adtech to deliver cross-channel television solutions. He is a husband and father to an adult son who continues to seek out reconciliation across a deeply divided nation.

Cade grew up in Grenada, Mississippi and is the Assistant Vice Chancellor for Access and Community Engagement in the Division of Access, Opportunity, and Community Engagement at The University of Mississippi. His work includes advancing the formation of collaborative partnerships between UM scholars and communities. He is also responsible for building bridges across divided communities through dialogue, education, and scholarly inquiry.

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Political speech in America is all too often dominated by hyperbole. We don’t just disagree, we find those on the other side to be offensive or even worse. All too often the language of curiosity, nuance and humility is missing from our dialog.

In this episode we look at a novel way to reach across the divide. During the spring, Minnesota Braver Angels leaders who live in the Minneapolis-St. Paul region decided to visit six small towns in rural parts of the state. Our guests are Melinda Voss, who leans blue, and Scott Schluter who leans red. 

We find out what they learned while on their nine-day "Reduce the Rancor" bus tour. Melinda, Scott and other volunteers organized a series of events, including red-blue workshops, meetings with local community leaders, and conversations with people in six towns. They also did a lot of listening.

“To be a Braver Angel requires a bit of humility," Melinda told us. "Your side might not have all the answers, and you might be wrong, and you might have something to contribute that would be valuable.”

Getting both sides together to talk instead of yelling across the partisan divide has taken on a new sense of urgency. Nowhere more so than in Minnesota, after recent politically-motivated murders of a Democratic state politician and her husband, and the shootings of another Democrat and his wife. The violence was  especially alarming in a state traditionally known for being “Minnesota Nice”, a term used to describe its courteous, mild-mannered, polite citizens. 

Here at How Do We Fix It? we look at ways to disagree better. Recent episodes have mainly focused on the people, projects and ideas of Braver Angels— an extraordinary collection of volunteers who work to depolarize America. 

More about our guests: 

Scott Schluter has been involved with Braver Angels as a red-leaning member since 2018, starting a Minneapolis Alliance in 2021 and then Minnesota State Co-coordinator in 2024. He spent a lifetime in photographic retail sales and management, which he’s found ties in greatly to the Braver Angel model of listening, asking great questions, acknowledging and working toward shared goals.

Melinda Voss is one of two state coordinators for Braver Angels Minnesota. She leans blue. Now retired, she was a staff writer for the Des Moines Register and Tribune for nearly 26 years, taught journalism at three universities, co-founded the Association of Health Care Journalists, and served as public relations director for the Minnesota State Colleges and Universities system..

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What is America’s role in a dramatically changing world? How does the health of our democracy impact other nations? In this episode we hear a rich mix of ideas in a conversation with podcaster, commentator, and former U.S. Deputy National Security Advisor Ben Rhodes.

“Young people today are going to have to imagine a new US government and a new set of international institutions,” says Ben. A future administration “will have to renegotiate the terms of a new international order.”

This hour-long episode is a recording of a live event held on May 22 in Washington D.C., produced by the Democracy Group and The McCourtney Institute. “How Do We Fix It?” is one of eighteen network members of Democracy Group, which features podcasts about civic engagement, civil discourse and the future of our democracy.

Ben Rhodes is cohost of the foreign policy podcast, “Pod Save the World”. He served as Deputy National Security Advisor for Strategic Communications and Speechwriting under President Obama. With former Biden advisor Jake Sullivan, Rhodes the co-chair of National Security Action, a political NGO. He is the author of two books: “After the Fall”, and “The World As It Is.”

This Democracy Group recording is cohosted by Kamy Akhavan, who leads the Center for the Political Future at the University of Southern California, and Stephanie Gerber Wilson, host and producer of the podcast/column “Freedom Over Fascism”. 

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If you’re disturbed or simply turned off by America's rigid political divisions this is the show for you. We discuss creative skills and practices that put a little hope back in your political life

Doug Teschner and Beth Malow are co-authors of the forthcoming book "Beyond the Politics of Contempt: Practical Steps to Build Positive Relationships in Divided Times." Their work builds on what they've both learned as bridge builders and Braver Angels volunteers. They also write about their work on Substack.

Imagine a country where people of opposing political beliefs and different social, geographical and educational backgrounds get along pretty well, and manage to make progress together on vital issues that they care about. Our two guests show how it can be done.

"We've always had debate and disagreement," Doug tells us. "The concern now is that this has become personalized. If you don't agree with me that means you're evil." People should disagree, but when it's about "us versus them, this is really dangerous for our country."

Most Americans want to get along, says Beth. "I just think there are forces out there tearing us apart because that's what they see their profit and power in... We need to stand up and say enough is enough. We're better than this."

Beth Malow leans blue. Doug Teschner leans red. He is a former Republican State Legislator in New Hampshire. Doug served as a Peace Corps country director in Ukraine and West Africa. He volunteers for Braver Angels as New England political leader. Beth Malow is a neurology physician, science and health communicator and lives in Vermont. She is also a trained volunteer moderator and debate chair for Braver Angels.

This is our latest episode on the people, projects, and ideas of Braver Angels: The volunteer-led nationwide citizens’ group that’s working to bring people together across rigid and often antagonistic divides. During our interview Beth mentioned a May 20th Braver Angels New Hampshire debate that she's involved with.

Our podcast host, Richard Davies, is a media trainer who works with clients to strengthen their public speaking, messaging, and interview skills. His email is daviescontentatgmail,com.

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Ten years ago this month we launched our first show at a time of new beginnings for podcasts. We were early to this game, and well before podcasting became part of mainstream media. 

In contrast to other shows about politics and current affairs we ran against the grain, avoiding snarky slogans and angry attacks. How Do We Fix It? focused instead on solutions journalism and what might be improved if we listen carefully to others who we don’t agree with. We urge listeners to get out of their comfort zone.

Right from the start, co-hosts Jim Meigs (leans red) and Richard Davies (leans blue) embraced nuance and celebrated the ideas of contrarians and compromisers alike. Their weekly podcast partnership lasted nine years. Together in this episode Richard and Jim consider a range of ideas that we have discussed.

Our podcast was well ahead of many others in its stout defense of free speech for all sides and firm support of enlightenment ideals. We also share examples here of how we broke ground with episodes on the impact of smartphones on children and college students, the spread of COVID, and the need for carbon-free nuclear power to be part of the response to climate change.

In this episode we include extracts from our rich catalog of episodes that date back to 2015. All of our shows can be found at howdowefixit.me.

Recommendations: Jim and Richard are both avid podcast listeners. Two of their favorites are "Breaking History" and "Strangers on a Bench". Eli Lake interviews historians, academics and reporters for Breaking History, "mining the past of human experience to figure out the present. " British singer-songwriter Tom Rosenthal hosts Strangers on a Bench. He meets people for the first time while sitting on a park bench, usually somewhere in London.. 

How Do We Fix It? is a proud member of the Democracy Group podcast network. We recorded this episode at The Manhattan Institute in New York. Thanks for their help and support.

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