December 21, 2025

How Lighter ate away Hyperliquid’s moat

1 hour 1 minute

Vladimir Novakovski, CEO of Lighter, explains their pivot from AI to a high-speed DEX. He addresses the controversy behind their zero-fee model and how ZK circuits ensure verifiability. Vlad says they're surprised at the success of Forex on Lighter, future plans for options and fixed income, and addresses community questions about token value and equity rights.

Notes:
- Spent 18 months building tech stack
- 1,000+ trading shops in contact with Lighter
- Polymarket has "pretty efficient" pricing

Timestamps:
00:00    Start
00:35    Surprises of success
02:50    Winning Perp DEX Season
06:30    Regulations
11:49    What parts need to be on-chain?
16:57    Sidecar
21:35    Forex trading flows
24:35    Spot markets
28:03    Future of zero fees
31:15    Public book & toxic flow
36:44    Standardizing Perp DEXs
40:16    Paths to revenue
45:47    User acquisition & tokens
49:28    The Hyperliquid Standard
56:24    Dealing with trolls

The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs. Backed by Paradigm, Electric Capital and Haun Ventures. The founders, Eugene and Jerry, have experienced Citadel Jane Street in the Solana Core team since launching their order book DEX, Phoenix. They’ve done over $80 billion in trading volume by making onchain order books competitive with centralized exchanges.

Ellipsis is hiring for New York-based engineers. Work with a small focus team who are results driven, collaborative, and use a modern stack. If you’re an engineer who wants to work on infrastructure that’s already proven itself in the market, go to ⁠⁠ellipsislabs.xyz⁠⁠.

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