Host Brian Stelter talks to Rudy Giuliani biographer Andrew Kirtzman and Vanity Fair executive editor Claire Howorth about the epic fall of “America’s Mayor” and his decades-long, symbiotic relationship with Donald Trump. “There's something about Rudy that makes Donald Trump swoon,” says Kirtzman, a veteran political reporter who recalled Giuliani as a “calm, fatherly general” in responding to the Sept. 11 attacks, only to spiral after his failed 2008 presidential bid and sink even lower in the aftermath of the 2020 election. They explore what's next for Giuliani, who may face charges in Georgia and Washington D.C., where he appeared to be co-conspirator #1 in the DOJ's latest indictment of Trump.