In this episode of The Product Experience podcast, we sit down with Product Consultant Joca Torres, whose work at Gympass is featured in Marty Cagan’s book Transformed. Joca shares the four core principles of successful digital transformation—principles he’s applied in both high-growth startups and century-old corporations.

We unpack what it really takes to shift a company from a delivery mindset to a product-led culture, the traps of discovery theatre, and how empowered teams actually behave. 

Key takeaways
— Discovery should be fast and focused. Avoid drawn-out discovery phases that confirm what you already know. Good discovery is grounded in existing insights and validated quickly.
— The Four Principles of Product Culture:

• Deliver Early and Often – Frequent releases drive learning and responsiveness.
• Focus on the Problem – Avoid premature solutions. Spend time understanding what really needs solving.
• Deliver Results – Products are a means, not an end. Success is measured in impact, not output.
• Ecosystem Mindset – Recognise the full range of users and stakeholders. Product is about balancing value across them.

— Transformation is behavioural, not technical. Digital tools are important, but they won’t matter if people and processes don’t change with them.
— Executive sponsorship is essential. Cultural shifts only take hold when the leadership team actively supports and models them.
— Beware of product theatre. Following the right rituals doesn’t mean you’re creating value. Focus on outcomes, not optics.
— Empowered teams are responsible teams. True empowerment means owning the problem, the solution, and the results. It isn’t for everyone.

Chapters
00:00 – The Problem with “Discovery”
01:00 – Introducing Joca Torres
02:30 – A Surprising Need for Digital Transformation
04:00 – What Makes a True Digital Transformation
08:00 – The Four Pillars of Change
13:00 – Thinking Beyond the End User
17:00 – From Feature Delivery to Outcome Ownership

Our Hosts
Lily Smith enjoys working as a consultant product manager with early-stage and growing startups and as a mentor to other product managers. She’s currently Chief Product Officer at BBC Maestro, and has spent 13 years in the tech industry working with startups in the SaaS and mobile space. She’s worked on a diverse range of products – leading the product teams through discovery, prototyping, testing and delivery. Lily also founded ProductTank Bristol and runs ProductCamp in Bristol and Bath.

Randy Silver is a Leadership & Product Coach and Consultant. He gets teams unstuck, helping you to supercharge your results. Randy's held interim CPO and Leadership roles at scale-ups and SMEs, advised start-ups, and been Head of Product at HSBC and Sainsbury’s. He participated in Silicon Valley Product Group’s Coaching the Coaches forum, and speaks frequently at conferences and events. You can join one of communities he runs for CPOs (CPO Circles), Product Managers (Product In the {A}ether) and Product Coaches. He’s the author of What Do We Do Now? A Product Manager’s Guide to Strategy in the Time of COVID-19. A recovering music journalist and editor, Randy also launched Amazon’s music stores in the US & UK.