Instantly one of our favorite all-time podcasts, our daughter Kaitlyn comes on for a vulnerable, far-reaching conversation about everything from pageants to the highs and lows of her experience with Christian school in Oklahoma, her passion for women's incarceration issues, and navigating what to believe now. We talk about how fear never ultimately motivates us to meaningful change, but how scary it is to rebuild your life and faith with a new engine when fear is no longer the primary driver.