The Zeitcast with Jonathan Martin

"Prophetic" and "pastoral" rarely go together...but they do in Rev. CeCe Jones Davis, which is why THIS is the two weeks later, spiritual postmortem of the election you need in your life! CeCe and Jonathan discuss the challenges of navigating relationships in a divided world and the role of racism and LGBTQIA issues in political discourse. CeCe emphasizes the importance of understanding fear as a driving force in politics, and vulnerably shares why she both decided NOT to vote in this year's presidential election---and then, why she changed her mind. They discuss the challenges of staying engaged with current events while maintaining personal well-being, the significance of accountability in one's vocation, and the necessity of humor in the face of adversity. Cece shares her experiences and insights on how to balance the heaviness of social justice work with the need for personal joy and connection with family. The dialogue culminates in a reflection on maintaining a steadiness of soul amidst turbulence, advocating for a proactive yet patient approach to spiritual engagement.

The systems and structures and institutions that have held us up are crumbling. There’s no need to bury our heads in the sand. Things do come to an end. But other folks have lived through such perilous times. In fact, some of the texts that folks have told us are all about the future, are actually now in the rear view window of history. We can look at how folks have lived in such times before, to know where and how to stand now. We can learn what is to not be paralyzed by the chaos, but bear witness—to not overthink it, but trust the creativity of the Spirit to give us what to say when we are called on the carpet.

You can’t bear the weight of the world on your shoulders, friend…the only thing you can bear, is to bear witness.

What on earth does it mean to worship in a time like this!? What does it mean to worship when it feels like the world (and maybe even the church) is ambiguous to you, or even against you? Why is it that some of our neighbors feel a unique kind of grief this election season? How are current political realities connected to larger spiritual realities--and how do we differentiate between these principalities and powers, and our neighbors? Oh and hey, for those of you are involved in any kind of ministry--how would you begin to LEAD a church or community in worship, when there are deep idealogical and political division?

After a truly stunning time of worship with Lan Davis Wilson, I was scarcely able to speak coherently yet--but very grateful for this beautiful conversation coming right out of the fire of that experience!

I don't really have the words to name the electricity, joy and pain that we felt in the room at Gobin Church during this time of prayer through song with Rev. Lan Davis Wilson. I'd rather you feel it for yourself--feel it through your headphones, feel it through your car stereo, feel it through a tiny phone or a laptop. It is an absolute lightning bolt of Holy Ghost power, wrapping up all heartbreak, rage and stubborn hope into an hour that quite literally, left every single one of us sitting in stunned silence when it was over. There is so much room in these songs...room, for ALL OF IT.

If you are trying to figure out what role worship has in your life, in your work of faithful resistance; if you are sad or happy or completely ambiguous, if you need comfort or if you need fuel for the fire, if you have a pulse or breath at all...this is for you. Personally, I can tell you I wept through just about every moment of this. Drink it up, let the music nourish you, and if you feel so inclined, send it to somebody who needs this kind of soulful encouragement in their life right now. Warmly, Jonathan

Rev. Benjamin Kremer joins us for a very special Zeitcast, in which he and Jonathan rank the five Bible verses that are the most misused right now, and what's wrong with the whole Trump/King David thing! Along the way, they also talk about the ongoing critique of the prophets over against the kings in the Hebrew Bible, how Jesus fits into that critique, and why it is that even the most liberating texts can be used in the most oppressive ways; as well as what's really going on with Romans 13, and why they are passionate about the essential message of the Book of Revelation (despite all the ways it has been used for harm). This is lively, fire-breathing conversation that will challenge your mind, and hopefully renew your soul!

Well this turned into a WHOLE THING! I don’t know quite how to capture the way that Jarrod McKenna sharing from his own experience preaching in Perth, Australia (13 hours ahead of Greencastle, Indiana) and my experience in rural Indiana turned into a stunningly coherent vision—with Jarrod doing a revolutionary riff on three trees of Scripture, and my rediscovery of the story of the widow’s offering in Mark’s gospel as a source of liberation. But boy, you’ve gotta hear it.

We desperately need clarity right now in this deeply Christian work of resistance, but we aren’t going to have it so long as we still have planks in our eyes—and Jarrod beautifully helps us see where the planks are, inviting us into a place where God can renew our vision (for ourselves & others) in a way that makes transformation possible.

We are committed to trying to bring the wisest guides we know to help you navigate this very particular moment--and Dr. Drew G.I. Hart is one of the clearest, most insightful prophetic voices we know! Such a tender, pastoral soul, who speaks with such clarity and fierce prophetic fire. In this conversation, Jonathan and Dr. Hart discuss the role of black church as a resource for engagement and resistance, the unique intersection of anabaptist and black church tradition that Dr. Hart occupies, and the challenge of disentangling faith from toxic political identities. They critique the notion of Christianity as a kind of centrism, over against the radical alternative that is Jesus/the way of Jesus--which must be lived out as public prophetic witness. They also discuss the ways that realistically a kind of prosperity theology is baked into the very bones of America. It's a clear critique, but also ultimately a hopeful, constructive, energizing conversation--without calling us to simply bury our collective heads in the sand.

In this post-election breakdown, Jonathan and Jarrod discuss the highlights the need for prophetic voices, particularly from the Black church, in advocating for social change and justice. They address the challenges of navigating spirituality and activism, the significance of community support, and the necessity of both prayer and action in the face of adversity.

Then Jonathan explores the narrative of the Hebrew prophet Elisha from 2 Kings 6 as a framework to explore themes of fear and divine perspective on this current political moment. He emphasizes the importance of seeing beyond immediate circumstances, recognizing the divine presence in our lives, and understanding that our freedom is interconnected with the freedom of others. The story of Elisha illumines for us the call not to stand in the ambivalent middle, but the vulnerable in-between, revealing the power of self-giving, self-sacrificial love--the kind of love that can liberate both the oppressed and the oppressors.

This is another emergency election edition of the Zeitcast--because I cannot sit on this conversation for five seconds knowing how central immigration is to the choices Americans are making this week--and how central immigration will continue to be long after this week is over. Zeke Hernandez' book The Truth about Immigration is a REVELATION. I wish I could buy one for every single one of you, I wish it were required reading for every person in public life who is providing any commentary around immigration at all.

We have all heard rhetoric about immigrants either as victims in need of our saving or of villains that we are in need of saving from. What if the truth is "that immigrants are net positives contributors to everything that makes a society successful?" The truth is that most of us have vague assumptions based on anecdotal stories we've heard or read about immigrants. But data/facts are not partisan, and this should not ultimately be a partisan issue. What if the story the facts actually tell are that we are actually SAFER with more immigration than with less? It is true that we have a deeply broken immigration system in the U.S., and spoiler alert--neither party on the whole is addressing the foundational issues that underwrite the problem. But how much closer could we get to the truth about such things, if we had the resources to sort fact from fiction?

Perhaps the most buried truth of them all, is that even with real problems around illegal immigration, whether immigrants are legal or illegal they STILL contribute overwhelmingly positively to the U.S. economy, categorically. Professor Hernandez helps us reckon with the empirical data surrounding immigration, reframing immigration as a matter of self-interest, rather than around either fear or charity.

This is a deeply important conversation for every citizen, but especially for people of faith. We wrangle honestly with the tough questions, en route to the truth that on some level we are always circling around--that all hope is local, and the way we can make a difference here ultimately will be made in real life in our real communities with real neighbors. But in order to love our neighbors, surely we must first stop believing lies about them, and bearing false witness against them? I humbly ask that you share this one broadly, and shout it from the housetops if you can.

This conversation is pure exhilaration! Dr. Andrew Newberg is a neuroscientist, the pioneer of "neurotheology," and one of the world’s leading researchers exploring the relationship between neuroscience and spirituality. His research includes taking brain scans of people in prayer, meditation, rituals, and trance states, in an attempt to better understand the nature of religious and spiritual experiences. His books include the recent Sex, God and the Brain, How God Changes the Brain, and Neurotheology: How Science can Enlighten Us About Spirituality.

In this engaging conversation, Dr. Newberg discusses the intricate relationship between brain function, spirituality, and sexuality. He explores how various mental states, including religious experiences and sexual intimacy, activate different areas of the brain. The dialogue delves into Newberg's journey from neuroscience to neurotheology, and the role of rituals and myths in shaping beliefs--emphasizing the need for an integrated approach to understanding spirituality and its impact on human experience.

Along the way, Dr. Newberg and Jonathan Martin explore the connection between sex and speaking in tongues (!), how liturgical practices may be similar to experiences of ecstatic prayer, the vulnerability that can lead us into transformation (and danger), and the evolutionary roots of social hierarchies. The conversation also explores the impact of belief systems on political polarization, and the role of algorithms in shaping our perspectives.

Finally, they reflect on the neurological effects of various spiritual practices, and the importance of finding personal paths to connection and understanding. A revolutionary conversation with one of our great minds--who also turns out to be super warm, engaging, open and curious--we think this is one of our most exciting Zeitcasts yet, and hope it will be as revelatory and wonder-inducing for you, as it has been for us!