In this episode, I'm joined by Jessica Smalley — producer, storyteller and comedic strategist behind Two Doting Dads, a weekly parenting podcast hosted by Matty J and Ash that's reshaping the way men talk about fatherhood.

After producing business deep-dives for Mark Bouris, Jess pivoted to the parenting aisle — bringing her systems brain, strategic storytelling and creative intuition to a show that's part chaos, part catharsis, and entirely relatable. With a growing audience of mostly 29–35 year old women (and their partners), Two Doting Dads offers the kind of parenting convos you'd usually only hear on the daycare run or at 2am with your sleep-deprived bestie.

Jess shares how she's helped build the show from a funny side hustle into a fully-fledged universe, and what it really takes to pitch and land a meaningful guest spot on a conversational, story-led podcast.

On Hack Your Own PR, we always explore the art and science of media relations, publicity, and storytelling to help you DIY PR, amplify your voice, and share your message.

In this episode, Jess provides a producer's lens on:

• Transitioning from straight-laced business pods to fart jokes and fatherhood

• Building a podcast universe — and why clarity on your "why" is essential

• Managing talent, guiding ADHD minds, and bringing structure to spontaneous comedy

• Her unique pitch criteria: from guest chemistry to narrative payoff

• What she really looks for in a compelling, guest-led episode

Key Takeaways:

• Podcast producers aren't gatekeepers — they're collaborators. Your job is to make their job easier.

• Understand the why of the show before you pitch. Jess wants guests who fit the mission — not just the category.

• She has to pitch guests to the hosts — so give her strong, story-led reasons they'll say yes.

• Presence matters more than profile. Can you speak for 45 minutes? Can you riff? That counts more than follower count.

• Ask the producer which 3 episodes best represent the tone of the show. Use that to prepare and pitch.

What to Avoid:

• Generic "I've got a great guest" emails. Jess needs to know: what's the story, what makes it different, and why it's perfect for this show.

• Underestimating the nuance of talent dynamics. Matty J and Ash have different filters — and Jess has to balance both.

• Coming in too polished or too serious. Two Doting Dads is built on honesty, imperfection and silliness — guests need to match that energy.

This episode is full of insider insight on the evolving podcast landscape — and a must-listen for anyone keen to pitch story-led shows in 2025 and beyond.

Access the Big Ideas Masterclass: https://diyprhub.mykajabi.com/Big-Ideas-Masterclass

Find Odette Barry online:

https://www.odetteandco.com.au/

https://www.instagram.com/odetteandco/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/odette-barry/

Find Jess Smalley online:

https://www.instagram.com/jess.smalley/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-smalley/

https://www.instagram.com/twodotingdads/